Allison Has Notes

David (00:51) Alright, welcome Shrink the Nation, live from the octagon of American psychology. and I have gone a few bloody rounds lately. Testosterone, Gen Z men, rage culture, the MAGA drift. thrown punches, taken punches, and honestly, both wobbling on the ropes. here's the wasn't a fair when it comes to talking about young men in politics, were in their shadow boxing without a female the truth is, That's like walking into the ring missing half your corner. So tonight we brought in Allison. not here to spar with us. She's here to land the knockout. She's got the receipts, she's got the critiques, and she's got zero patience for two guys who thought they could cover the psychodynamics of masculinity without a woman in the room. Think of this as the final round. Rob and I are already bruised up. Now Allison gets to finish the job. But before we get started, I'm David. I've got my 20 plus. In the military, I am a board certified psychiatrist. Today, got with me Angel's Envy. Hopefully this will give you some level of protection, I'm guessing, maybe perhaps. It is sweet. So hopefully Allison will be to us, but we'll see what happens. And I'll just go with that. I'm crossing my fingers. So. Rob (01:54) Hahaha I like how you paved the way. Hey, it's Rob. 30 years in military and in psychiatry. I am drinking my standby this evening, which is Jim Beam Black Label. a slightly rye bourbon. Beautiful price point and does the job nicely. maybe I'm the masochist of the group, looking forward to getting punched in the face. Allison (02:19) Hi, I'm Allison. I have almost 20 years as a psychiatrist with some additional psychotherapy training and I'm drinking Trader Joe's sparkling water lemon. pretty good. Rob (02:30) such a chick drink. David (02:32) I we need something to keep the edge off and Allison is to keep the edge. So are you ready? Allison, the bell just rang. What do need to hear? Allison (02:40) My first grievance is not even on the list. It's that both of you use the word sweet. And that's something that is commonly used in evangelical. to encourage women to not be loud, to be obedient. It's literally the title of the, what is it, Keep Sweet? The Netflix documentary about Warren Jeffs. So, it's super interesting. David (03:03) Yes, and we would appreciate it if as you come at us, if you would keep that in Just like the angels envy, which is finished in port barrels and is quite sweet. Rob (03:08) I'm Can we just simulate that? What's his name? Allison (03:17) Warren Jeffs. David (03:18) Warren Jeffs. Rob (03:18) I was going to say that, but then I thought I had it wrong because that doesn't feel right. It's like two first names. David (03:24) He didn't either. Rob (03:25) Two first names always throw me off. I mean, it's always unsettling to me when someone has two first yes, keep it sweet, Allison. David (03:30) Well, in the possessive noun version of a first name too, right? Rob (03:35) Yeah, that's crazy. No, you make a good point. I have no idea where I said sweet and I actually I apologize. reminded of something years and years and years ago, I was in college and I was Acting as a tutor for a group of individuals who were accepted into medical school but needed to do like the preliminary courses and I was tutoring them in organic chemistry and some biology and I was in an environment where someone came looked at me and said, what do you think of when you think black? And I thought of Christmas trees because it was that time of year and I had just carried a Christmas tree in and all this black stuff on the floor. what they were referencing, and it's a relevant thing that they were referencing is that when we talk about black, we often think about evil or bad or darkness or whatever. context that they came at me with was about race. I was so caught off guard that I was like, vacuum cleaner. I said, vacuum And I was like a 21 year old kid. So you are absolutely terminology is certainly utilized in a context. I don't think it was the context David and I were talking about, but please keep going. Keep going at us. David (04:52) How does it feel to be told that you're right and wrong at the same time? But it's okay for you be right and wrong at the same time, Allison. Rob (04:56) Yeah. Yeah. Allison (04:59) Alright, so I I just, for just being, any, anyway. David (04:59) Round 1 Rob Keep your gloves up, Allison. Keep your gloves up. Rob (05:04) Yep. 10, 9. 10, 9, round one, Rob. Allison (05:06) Thank actually about isn't combative at is a little bit more vulnerable. When you asked me to come be a guest on a podcast, I was really reluctant. David can tell you how many clarifying questions I asked, probably 15,000 at least. David (05:26) I think what you said was, sure, when can I do End of list. Allison (05:29) Hahaha David (05:31) can't wait to be on your awesome podcast. I listen to it all the time. It's my Allison (05:31) I... had already... I had already smashed the... I had already smashed the like and But the both of you existing as a woman just invites more than... David (05:35) though I have some notes on your last few episodes. Rob (05:37) I'm pretty sure she said smash that subscribe Allison (05:48) Existing as a man does so even coming to talk Rob your face is saying maybe maybe voices are criticized in That men's voices are not women's existing in public is criticized in way that men Existing is not men are accepted as the default and women are the outlier. was actually looking into this because I had been to see Fantastic Four I was like, that's funny. Four people, three men, one woman. which brings to mind Seinfeld and the airing of grievances. So that's three men, men and one woman. And I was like, David (06:22) Yes, a Festivus for the rest of us. Allison (06:27) looking for examples, it's so funny. the 90s, poet a piece, and I think the New York Times, she called it the Smurfette Principle, the only blue woman in the group of Smurfs. there's only one woman in an entirely male ensemble. So establishes a male-dominated narrative where the woman is the exception and exists only in reference to the man. made a little list. I think anytime I do a feminist principle, you should drink. David (06:52) Wait, do we get to drink? Is there a quote in here anywhere? Rob (06:55) You We should drink. Yeah, that's the new rule. David (06:58) yes, okay, perfect. Feminist principle, drink. Allison (07:01) Yeah, that's great. You're gonna be literally the movie I was watching, fantastic The re-watch I'm doing with my family, psych, core cast is, two men, but the main person cast is three men and one woman. David (07:02) we're going to smashed by the end of this. Rob (07:05) Yeah. Yeah. Allison (07:19) even Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. It's like the four turtles and then April. a funny thing that once you notice, it's hard to unsee. that was my idea because you all had a three guy podcast about the alt-right drift of young men and almost entirely left out that men are half the population and that women are the other half of the population. Rob (07:35) Mm-hmm. Well, we entirely left that out, response to this is that we do take on topics that are pretty complex getting through these topics in the time allotted. my good argument back is that We are cognizant of our maleness, the three of us are guys. And this would be the equivalent of chatting about the NBA draft during the Super Bowl. the topic was football. So we didn't talk about basketball. that was a limitation of what we were doing, we were talking very about a set of symptoms. I'm struck by what stimulates me, and what's fun about this podcast and engaging with other people is that perspective. That it's funny, because I remember thinking back on my experiences when I was a kid when Smurfs were actually still a new thing. It was on Yeah, was with my great grandkids. No, I was a kid and Smurfette was the only girl, no doubt, she had unique power and she was uniquely wise. David (08:43) when you were a kid or when you were in your 80s. Rob (08:57) and uniquely deferred to. So from my standpoint, she was much more powerful than the perspective that you just gave it that David (09:06) She was also the only Smurf that anybody can think of when you ask about the damn Smurfs. Except for maybe Papa Smurf. Like you can't think of another fucking Smurf. Like you could think of two Smurfs. Papa Smurf and Smurfette. Name another one. Rob (09:11) Absolutely. I can't remember. I remember Papa Smurf. Papa. Papa Smurf and Smurfette. That's it. Allison (09:21) my gosh, you all there with brainy smurf, are you kidding? Rob (09:23) I don't remember any of those. I'm going to have to Google it. I'm going to have to confirm that. David (09:25) Nah, don't. Yeah. Brady's really just made that up. She made that shit up. We're going to get, we're going to get slent. are going be, there's no brainy Smurf. She made that Who is this? Who is this Allison character you brought in? What kind of Smurf expert is she? Stop Googling it. You can't Google it and then tell us who the Smurfs are. Stop Googling the Smurfs. Don't Google the Smurfs on our show. Allison (09:30) just lie the whole thing I'm just making it all up I'm googling it right now. Yeah, he had glasses. Are Rob (09:49) Who was Allison (09:50) you kidding? Rob (09:51) the muscular Smurf? Was it Brawny? Brawny Smurf? David (09:55) See what I'm, yeah, but point, point, see, exactly. You know exactly who Smurfette is. Rob (10:00) I know, I know, she has name recognition whereas the rest of them did not. Allison (10:05) think the interesting thing about what you just described is that she has effectively been tokenized. She has been put on a pedestal. She has extra superpowers. She's very special. You have to treat her in a special kind of way. I just think that that just kind makes my that you only have one. David (10:23) It does. Allison (10:25) one woman and then there she is she's got like more responsibility than the other smurfs i with the exception of maybe papa who was running the show now i i did not watch any papa smurf or any smurf to read on this this is just Rob (10:37) No, you didn't. Because was on a pedestal in that show. You need to watch the Smurfs. You do. You've got to watch the Smurfs. Allison (10:45) not. I will I won't... not. David (10:46) coming out at Rob. You got the smurf expert here. Rob is just smurf this, smurf that all the time. Rob (10:52) I was! I was! I actually watched the Smurfs, so I have some expertise here. But no, the- David (10:56) You have no idea how often, often I have to Allison (10:57) But 40 years. David (10:59) cut out Smurf references on this show because Rob just drops the Smurf bombs, the S bombs constantly. He's just like, Smurf this, Smurf It's embarrassing. Rob (11:02) I realize. It truly fascinating to me. Well, it is fascinating to me though that these cultural touch points end up being made into a data point for a other point I think that's a stretch. What we've just said, yes, it was a singular, I can't argue that. She was the only female smurf. But if you had watched the Smurfs, what you're describing was not the Smurfs, was not how she was placed in that show. she was particularly wise. She called them out on their bullshit. That was her role, is that, on their bullsmerf. But that. David (11:43) on their bull smurf. Allison (11:45) You Rob (11:46) The rest of what you're describing was not exactly nature of what it was on the Smurfs. David (11:54) It just wasn't the smurfing point. Allison (11:55) Yeah, so Rob (11:56) It wasn't the smurfing point! Allison (11:58) So the smurfing point of that is that there was only that's the whole, that it was just her. And that's the point in all of this I would imagine it didn't even stick out as weird to you that there was just one, because that's how the culture sees. Okay. Rob (12:01) It was, that's the truth. David (12:03) Yes. Rob (12:12) It was weird. No, no, it was weird. It was a thing we talked about. Allison (12:17) Yeah, it is just ex. David (12:18) It did make you wonder where all the other Smurfs came from. Rob (12:21) Exactly. Allison (12:22) It is also just how things are. now that you have noticed that now some, sometimes things get wild. So Brooklyn. David (12:28) How many queens are there in an ant colony? Allison (12:31) And so like shows like Brooklyn Nine-Nine will have like two women or three women and it actually sticks out as unusual. is the to what I just wanted to talk about, which is that in discussing these alt-right men, we left out... what they want and what they are trying to do to the people that they would like to have either stay oppressed or to be newly oppressed to keep down. we were just talking about, right, got to look at what they want if we are indeed shrinking the nation, what they want is really important and that's to keep. women and people of color and minorities, immigrants down, either to put them back there or to keep them there. you ready to drink? My point is about the go Rob (13:22) Well, we get to David (13:23) Wait wait, did Rob (13:25) reel back just a touch. I can only myself. When I thought about doing that episode, what I was thinking more along the lines of addiction medicine Allison (13:24) you Rob (13:36) the symptoms of really quite distasteful very often. I'm not talking about the symptoms, increase use withdrawal craving I'm talking about sort of the behaviors associated with addiction. They're really very, very really easy to disregard them as bad behavior. doing it that way, you kind of miss the illness. illness that is existing deserves treatment. when we discussed engaging in we wanted to accomplish was really looking at the psychodynamics of a nation through the context of the individual for this, what struck me as such a relevant thing is that there is this huge of our population, these young men who are drifting to identify with Republican politics. don't care which side they're drifting to. That doesn't necessarily stimulate me as can be whatever you want to be and you can vote for whoever you want to vote. What I found interesting was that there's this huge swath of folks that are being drawn to a certain direction that belies an underlying problem. And it wasn't that I necessarily felt the behaviors were okay, I felt like that's a symptom. to this bigger society illness that deserves some attention. I did not think about Smurfette though, that might've been my error. David (15:07) the discussion was about the fact that it was happening and why was happening. Not discussion of. Rob (15:11) Yeah. David (15:16) what happening the individual level. do think that's a point that we the first episode we did not talk about was here are the behaviors associated with this is why they're bad. we came back around when we got some critique, we still didn't about affects the population, especially the targets of the behavior. I think that was a huge miss on our aim was to talk about this is the thing that is not who it's happening to or anything which is what we should talk about now. And I'm glad that we have you here to talk about it. that was, why we don't know that it's we just didn't. Rob (15:48) Yeah. Me too. in past stupid doesn't stop me from being future So please. David (15:57) No, you said something like, apologize, now I'm going to double down. Rob (16:02) like to double damn on stupid. David (16:04) approach any apology, Rob (16:06) No, Allison (16:07) I do think that is, keep missing the thing I am trying to say, which is that it's really easy to say, don't care which way they vote. I personally have had my rights impacted by this alt-right shift. I imagine the two of you have as well, but I directly have my right to access healthcare. that I need has absolutely been impacted. right of my family to access healthcare that's needed has absolutely been impacted. And when we try to talk phenomenon without recognizing that, why you're getting the pushback that you have is that it's tied together that this group of people, desperately want to maintain power and it back to a psychotherapy principle, we know that when an abused person is leaving an abusive relationship, so right as they finally kind of seek to reclaim their power to leave an abusive relationship, that is when the risk of violence is So is why men can't visit domestic violence shelters. so the violence escalates I do think that the alt-right movement is that violence escalating as women access more society careers achievement when people of color have protections built into the not be discriminated against. I think women and people of color reach essentially escape velocity, that's when the violence happens. And I think that's what we saw happen in the reconstruction period after the Civil War, who were previously enslaved were free and elected to Congress, had like national positions, so much so that what is it North Carolina legislature only coup in American history, supremacist coup over through the government. I think that's what we're seeing. So there are reflections in the past. when people are able to have more rights, more money, more freedom, we see this kind of violent response. So that's point one of my list of grievances. All right, so to wrap up on my first grievance is that we know that certain groups of people, when push comes to shove, are more likely to want to enforce the status quo, which is Rob (18:25) Yes. Allison (18:27) so this a drink because I have mentioned patriarchy. David (18:30) Drink. Rob (18:31) Well, Allison just created a drinking game. Every time she mentions the everyone in the audience should drink. Now, I assume you're drinking coffee or water, maybe a Testo Rage Max, something like drink. All right, patriarchy, drink. Go, Allison. Allison (18:49) Drink. So if David (18:50) I thought it was whenever she espoused in a feministic principle, we were supposed to drink. Allison (18:54) Yes, that too. Same thing. Rob (18:56) Same thing. Allison (18:56) Same thing. let's go ahead and define patriarchy real quick. It's the social system in which positions of authority are primarily held by men. So we have heard a lot of you can't say anything these days. you're not allowed to do that anymore. fact, you are. there was a little while back when there were more men named John were CEOs of Fortune 500 companies than women. it was hilarious. There's like a David (19:22) Then Women Named John? Allison (19:23) than women, period. But yes, also more than women named John. David (19:27) a lot of women named John lot of women named John, Rob (19:27) were complaining that not enough Johns category. Allison (19:32) yeah, we should absolutely reclaim that. My next one, name her John. Rob (19:36) You should do that. Allison (19:37) I'll get right on Rob (19:37) won't confuse David (19:38) Did we learn anything from Robin Hood Men in Rob (19:38) It's fine. David (19:40) Tights about the word John? Rob (19:42) David's really good at very obscure references. David (19:46) You don't remember this reference. was Patrick Allison (19:46) I mean, I've even seen the movie. I don't remember. Rob (19:50) David movie. David (19:52) He said the toilets in the kingdom will henceforth be known as John's of. Rob (19:57) Because. Allison (21:03) so my next grievance is podcast tends to talk about evolutionary biology quite a bit. in ways that can make how people act make it sound like predestination that somebody is destined to act behave a certain way. But I think it's socialization as well. So especially with gender and especially gender inequity parts of the patriarchy that seek to maintain control over women. those ideas act a certain way and women act another way of biology. it's partly true, but our society also very strongly reinforces acting a certain way and boys acting another way. Especially if you've time around anybody who's gender nonconforming, you see exactly how society is and how those... stereotypes, or expectations are started very young. the little baby clothes are like a future lady killer for little boys. And for little girls, it's just like the most disgusting sexualized clothes. Also, like just some really stuff. David (22:10) I have a future lady killer on right now. I don't know why you would steal It's not a onesie, Allison. Rob (22:16) And the funny thing Allison (22:16) It's true. Rob (22:17) is to the audience is that David is not a future lady killer. what's funny. know, actually a really astute observation. And I fear it is a... David (22:23) No, I'm not even a past lady killer. We're going to talk about it at our man patriarchy meeting going to solve this. Rob (22:37) Are you bringing the goat to the patriarchy meeting later? Because need a goat. I have been deeply impacted by the works Robert Wright, who wrote a book back in 94. David (22:36) I mean, secret man patriarchy meeting. Yes. Rob (22:50) moral animal. And it is reflection biological or evolutionary psychology. And it has had deep impact on me and how I see the world. I am also very, very aware that our brain is an overlay, that there may be a genetic tendency, but we have this overlay of sentience and we are humans and we get to make choices and our impulses should not rule us. is kind of the essential thing about being a human that we're not ruled by our impulses. We get to assess them. And most of what we do as psychiatrists is really ancient brain that we have that is anxiety and fear and anger and emotion. And then we have this overlay that reason thought. talked in the propaganda episode about fast emotional thinking and slow rational thinking. thank you for being here. thing I love about doing this is just smart people bring up smart things we can talk about. But we're talking about a nation. this is probably a preconception of mine that on the national level, We're dealing with a more fast emotional thinking, a more biologic thinking that our propaganda is more geared toward fast emotional thinking. That's what drives us as a nation, but it does not absolve us on the individual level. of being humans. got a frontal cortex for a reason, should think it through. is not something that do the averages, ends up driving our politics is something different. So you're absolutely I do have a... bias Not on the individual level, but when it comes to this show when it comes to me thinking of the nation, I have a bias toward evolutionary psychology absolutely correct. that's a struggle, I am talking to two clinical psychiatrists, two people who spend a lot of time with patients, but how much of your time, your engagement with patients ends up being about that distinction, between this innate fast emotional thinking brain, and us trying to get them to think more in terms of the slow rational thinking. Allison, please me your clinical experiences in that realm. Help me feel less bad about myself right now. Allison (25:28) I do think with my patients, spend a pretty good amount of time talking about... temperament I do people are born certain ways, absolutely, more anxious. Sometimes when you meet the family, you're like, ⁓ this is absolutely something that's been passed down either genetically or socially. really interesting to see parts are factory settings and which Rob (25:34) Mm-hmm. Allison (25:53) parts have by environment. Rob (25:56) And I love that terminology, the factory setting. factory setting is a thing. And then we take it home and we adapt it to our life. And there is a struggle sometimes in resetting of the factory settings, sounds redundant to me. David (26:14) not factory settings. Rob (26:17) Changing, yeah, making it work. And that thing in the episode that pissed Allison David (26:24) Which one? need to be more specific. Which episode? Allison (26:26) Yeah, which one thing was I mad about? Rob (26:29) Right. Well, it does occur to me that it feels like maybe she's been angry with Thomas way back and. David (26:35) That's why she keeps listening. Rob (26:36) yeah it wasn't these episodes. She was pissed off way back. David (26:38) ⁓ years, years prior to this, yeah. Rob (26:42) these episodes, personally was talking about a factory setting. was not necessarily saying it is with you buy an Apple product, the factory necessarily work in your house. David (26:40) We've just given her a platform. Rob (26:57) And the factory settings that I was referencing for these young men doesn't necessarily work in this culture. not saying that the culture is wrong at all. fact, think we hopefully, gosh, if we didn't, it is such failure on our part. But move toward equity is a future episode that we're going to do is on America's shadow, which is where the land of equality that has not provided for these young men, you're talking about an end state or an easy is do away with equality. Let's put women back into a position in which they are powerless. Let's put minorities back into a position in which they are powerless. However, shift is happening minorities as well. is happening in African communities. It's happening in Hispanic communities. So there is something happening. even though, yes, That's the stupid solution. That's the dumb solution. That's the easy one. Let's push everyone back to a point of then they can feel powerful again. What my hope was with that episode was largely about talking about the dynamic and how do we help men this moment move engage in relationships and live a life in which they can feel engaged and powerful. And that power is not power over people. but power to affect people, a power to engage with members and their spouses and be there and make a difference. David (28:41) want off setting analogy real quick. The way I was trying to approach where they're headed was factory settings was default settings, but rather wanting to change factory approached guides on these extreme adjustments. young men searching the web for how-to guides, you have political groups them away saying, we're not interested in helping you your factory settings. You can go to And another group buddy, I got the exact settings you showing them exactly what to this. are the settings you want. the point that I was trying to make is that these are not factory settings and that in order to help society, one, we want figure out how-to guides those who are still in their factory mode. was there adjusting their settings as we all try to throw throughout our life? not adjusting in that way. and then to call the how-to is ending up in this out the sides that are not interested in helping you at have this one setting that we don't have no interest in helping you readjust your settings. was my didn't come across as well as I would have liked it to, actually my stance for everyone that, we have our default settings, We all have the ability to change them if we're willing to. And it is our responsibility on the individual level adjust accordingly. empathic enough to adjusting throughout life. And you can throughout life to say, is this working? for the people around me? for the relationships that I I able to have relationships, which turns out 65 % of them because of the new settings that they have. And so it's not working for what they're being told by their how-to guide Rob (30:28) No! David (30:34) worry champ, these settings are working great. issue that you're having with these settings and not having relationships is that everyone else's settings are fucked it's the chicks settings, their settings are messed up. All you gotta do is just twist this dial, get that setting a little bit more tuned. Rob (30:41) It's the chicks. Yeah, it's... If Allison was more agreeable, everything would be fine. David (30:53) That's right. If she would just acknowledge the fact that how see my stance is we can all change if try. Allison (30:55) I So. One of the things I think the both of you are inadvertently maybe missing or echoing or emphasizing in a way that's, gosh, really annoying is that women get this message constantly. Women get this message, my gosh, he's just having a hard time. Maybe just be more empathic. He's just, you know, he works so hard for you. So that message, so it might just be that I'm not your audience. I have been encouraged my entire life to be empathic and understanding to men and boys who are having a hard time. That is what I'm saying. David (31:37) who said to be empathic and understanding to him though? what I said, I didn't say to be empathic and understanding. Allison (31:42) I'm also referencing the previous podcasts. we were encouraged to meet in the middle where the compromise happens. was a big point that I nearly out from rage. Not the I passed out from estrogen rage negative max. Rob (31:45) Yeah. David (31:52) We'll see you later. this society? Rob (31:55) Hahaha! let's make it clear. She didn't pass out from the test. A rage drink. ⁓ this, that, that is safe to drink. Keep drinking it. Keep drinking test. rage. ⁓ the, yeah. Let's make that clear. David (32:00) Well, for- No, that actually gave her the energy. In spite of what the FDA or so-called labs say function, test of Rage Max is good to go. G2G, yeah, if you can trust all the science out there. Rob (32:17) So-called science. Allison keep talking about say more about that for me Allison (32:23) You More about my rage max Rob (32:27) No, no, no, no. Yes. Your ester rage. No, I think I think you just nailed something. I mean, absolutely nailed it. I failed it. I failed it in my core. So you keep you keep talking about that, that what we were doing, even though what you're talking about is the fact that it was three dudes, it was a sausage party. Allison (32:31) Ha Yeah, I know I did. Rob (32:51) talking about, think we were talking relevant topic, what we were missing was the empathy that you just brought to this. Please David (33:02) Wait, can I point out the irony of Rob mansplaining Allison's point to Allison? Allison (33:09) Yeah Rob (33:10) No, no, no, I want more want more Allison (33:11) You got it. good, good job, buddy. You understood. So have you heard the joke? Have you? Have you? So there was there's like a bunch of jokey ways that you can deal with mansplaining, and one of them is to to the person who is mansplaining to you like they're a toddler and they're finally understood something like, good job, buddy. You finally got it. I'm so proud of you. Rob (33:16) yeah, yeah, I want more. want more. I want more of that. Allison (33:37) You're doing such a good job. so yes, men, sure, you all can go off and have your goat sacrifice male bonding experiences where you empower each other and you make each other feel good and heard. Absolutely. We do need more male friendships. Women have been expected to be the emotional Kleenex for men forever. Men have been expecting women to do this emotional work for them. And when women are opting out of doing that emotional regulation that like maybe a mother would teach her child to do when she no longer doing that for the men or when maybe his mom's not doing that for him anymore, then he's left with all of these feelings and doesn't know what to do with them. So yeah, sure, men, you can go out and do this for each other. I'm done doing that emotional work for men. And I certainly will not compromise or meet in the middle with someone who is actively legislating my rights to be taken away, who thinks that I should not have the right to vote. Now, women have only been able to vote since 1964. All women, I should say, it's so recent, 1964. which was long after Rob was born, thousands of years after Rob was born. Rob (34:55) For the record, David (34:57) Yeah. Rob (34:58) absolutely concur. I'm just clarifying history here because I'm not a historian, as the Haitians will tell but 1920 was women's suffrage. David (34:58) ⁓ Well, she said no, she said all was referring to women of color as or color of color. Allison (35:17) yeah, caller. We've got to speak Appalachian so he understands us. David (35:19) a lachin. Rob (35:20) Yes, thank you. Thank you for adjusting to the Appalachian accent. David (35:25) Maybe we should have poured up some Cosmos before this so we could have all been on the same. Rob (35:25) I appreciate. in preparation for this. I've been reading Cosmo all day long. I have found is, I've found that I'm not doing enough contouring with my That important element of the makeup experience. you are saying resonates with me deeply. David (35:33) Are your nipples sensitive? I disagree. disagree. Rob (35:47) that experience mothered and the magic and mystery of the feminine that is so critical existence. And so is masculinity, by the way. is necessary component of it. I'm not going to define it. mean, think the audience can probably throw it into their own categories. But Allison described was this lovely experience of being mothered. And fathers don't provide that. And under a perfect circumstance, We're getting mothered and we're getting fathered. And what my fear is, I guess, at this particular moment, or actually maybe historically, have failed to be fathered. That society has failed to be fathered. Or more to the point, we men have failed to father. And I've said over and over again, we gotta be the worst generation of parents ever. We really probably are I blame my we always can. this generation is lacking this male generation, is that... experience and then it's not enough to go through your life expecting that every woman's going to do this for you. got to incorporate it into your own life. got to do it for yourself. It is so absolutely critical to a healthy adult perspective is that you have you've just described time and memorial, the lack of it, the lack of men incorporating being mothered not requiring it in their adult life, that they still want to be mothered. They still want to be told, you're good. And I'm going to meet you in the middle. all the things women do our society and for us. Allison (37:41) I would say that healthy people do for each other. So a healthy person. and not and fathering, just being a good can also be kind warm and affectionate. a know David. First stop with the time machine is. David (37:53) Wait, Uh-oh. Rob (37:56) between... What? David (37:59) Yeah, Rob (38:00) I David (38:00) crap. Rob (38:01) don't have time to do those things between beating and shaming my children to being tougher. I just... David (38:05) Yeah. How can I sit in the garage and drink Allison (38:08) Hahaha David (38:09) and parent my children? Rob (38:10) Allison the you're leveling upon us is just too much Allison (38:11) I know. Can I tell I used to teach a class where we talked about gender expectations and my co-facilitator, when I told him that I'm also person who's the primary parent my house, would tell you the same thing. I'm the one they go to if something happens, I'm the my kids come to. So I'm the primary at home. And he was like, but you are working. You have a full-time job. And I was like, I know I do. And I'm still the primary parent at home. The division of labor still with women who are bread earners is that they still are the primary parents. They are doing more of the are doing all of this extra work. we have men who are being the alt-right pipeline because they I guess, step up. So I would love to promote your All's Ropes course that you're gonna do to get these men talk about their feelings and to just exist as a human being. Rob (39:12) That's what we're said we need more actually, we're going to get it on air, David, Allison has to agree. to come do boss burnout episode with us. David (39:25) Yes. Yes. Allison (39:27) Yeah, absolutely I will. And so the Rob (39:29) All right. All right. To our tens of listeners, we have Allison's ironclad agreement to do this. Yeah, right. I mean, it's contractual at this point, right? David (39:35) commitment. Allison (39:37) No, so you know it's the girl... Yeah, David (39:41) That's right. Allison (39:43) for all zero dollars of my testo rage max residuals that I'm getting. David (39:47) Yes. Yes, all of it. Yeah, you're doing it. Rob (39:48) you're on, you're in it now. The test of rage max residuals are coming to you, so you know. Allison (39:56) it might spoil that episode. stoked for an author Moira Donigan, she writes for a bunch of different... Rob (39:56) We're talking pennies. Allison (40:03) I don't know, what are they called now? Journalism, websites, newspapers or columns. And she talks about that the is a direct response to girlboss. do the one and then you burn out and then you're a anyway, it's super interesting. Rob (40:17) Yep. Lean in girls, because I think that would actually end up fixing the men. why don't you just lean in, the guys, we're good. We're good. Allison (40:23) Yeah, just do it. Yeah, just do it harder. Rob (40:29) Let's do it. Allison (40:30) Okay, so yeah, just do it. Keep doing all the things you're doing Rob (40:33) harder. you're looking at your third complaint. David (40:35) yeah, keep, Allison (40:34) Okay. David (40:37) the grievances coming. Allison (40:37) I got my Rob (40:38) Holy hell! Allison (40:38) Okay, I think this is really my last one. David (40:41) That's it? All right. Rob (40:42) I'm so glad because I think of myself as being... Very open and the fact that I've made this many errors, I am distressed. David (40:52) typical man. Allison (40:52) This next one, I will just read you my notes. My next complaint is that Rob very quickly discarded the idea of emerging womanhood as something even worthy of consideration. Rob (40:55) Good lord. Allison (41:03) think you used the ability to that's the measure, then boys have the same they can produce sperm, then they should be So like the ability to procreate if we're using that measure. you also talked about an experience that made you a man, like a community experience where you would go out and slay an animal. If we use the bear that animal, I will draw your attention to the man versus bear debate took place. I think it was the spring of last year. If you are unfamiliar with this, was women answered the question to they were like out hiking in the woods alone, who they'd rather run across, a man or a bear. And every video I saw, it might just be my man-hating algorithm, it was a bear, because a bear isn't gonna rape you and then kill you. A bear won't torture you and then kill you. It'll just kill you. might be the definition of what a woman means, being whistled at. Rob (41:50) It's a bear. Yeah. Yeah, it'll just kill you. Yeah. Allison (42:05) as you walk down the street and you're 12 years old, how to navigate adult men who are sexually interested in you, to navigate just walking through the grocery store. that might be the community experience of becoming a woman is how to manage male attention, feelings, and how to let them down so that they don't kill you or hurt you. Rob (42:09) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That as a person who loves some women. Allison (42:30) Say it creepier Rob, say it creepier. Rob (42:32) yeah, that I couldn't some women David (42:34) Dr. Love next tune is from a man who loves some women. Rob (42:35) man loves some very some specific women that gets me in my belly resonates with me deeply. what I was talking about in my defense is sense of manliness and womanliness and sense of this. What is lacking, was talking very much on the individual level at their sense of these things. And what is lacking things. One is not a woman. So the sense of womanliness is not so simple. And it does evolve grow and is complex. But culture as a whole, and this is not me doing psychotherapy with an individual, this is culturally, people rarely question someone's womanliness. frequently question a manliness. you have just me. It hits me in the 100 consider the experience of women. David (43:41) I disagree with what you just said. do think question are women whose womanliness gets questioned So I don't think you can, you definitely can't generalize that. Rob (43:47) David, you're full of shit. Let's just face it. David (43:53) I mean, do think men's manliness gets questioned, but I think questioned. I do think that happens. Rob (43:58) So in and out. Allison (44:00) think we're just gonna have to trust that he said something super smart that I agreed with because that's how he was going. Because as a human woman who, not so much anymore, but like femininity is absolutely policed. I would imagine pretty similarly to masculinity, you can't be too loud, you can't be too much. So like all of those things that how men and boys are policed. girls and women are also policed. who's just even a little gender nonconforming, now, especially, especially now, scrutiny is just really intense. Rob (44:32) Mm-hmm. yeah, Allison (44:38) Women leaders are especially scrutinized are they feminine enough? if they interrupt too much, they're too masculine, they're a all of those things, if you don't embody the ideal, if you're an outlier, really difficult. Rob (44:44) Yeah. Allison (44:54) the whole thing that Kamala is a that Michelle Obama is a man, like there's some third Rob (44:59) Wait, it's patriarchy. Say patriarchy and then we'll drink Allison (45:07) It is patriarchy and it's intersectional, meaning that they are women and Black, so therefore they have the expectations there and the things that are stacked up against them are even more complicated. Rob (45:21) I'm in complete concurrence. I guess I'm thinking in terms of a lack of nuance and I'm thinking on the tribal level. small tribe level. we are built for this small tribe existence, and we find ourselves in a very much more complex existence. And that small tribe existence, in-group versus out-group, male versus female. is much more simplistic. Now, I'm not ignorant of the fact that we exist in a bigger picture. But what led me to talk about that. But I concur with absolutely everything you said. So I am 100 % in agreement with what you've said. And I think David's internet came back to us. David (46:11) Yes, I will. agree with. agree with everything that you said, all that that I heard. Rob (46:17) God, that's boring as disagree. mean, it's bad It's just bad I can't agree and you agree. That just sucks. David (46:19) no, no, I agree with no, I, I agree. And well, okay. I think that womanliness does into question. I think the, of it on our episode was, ridiculous, that the conversation, but also, also I think that. Rob (46:34) No, I disagree on that. David (46:39) wasn't about a ridiculous statement to make because it was a ridiculous statement that was... It's a ridiculous statement. Rob (46:40) Yes! No, it's not a ridiculous statement. It is backed up by a lot of science. David (46:51) Not everyone develops the same way. that's not, a litmus test simply not the episode wasn't about that. Alison is valid to be upset. Of course, because what she was absolutely right. But, Rob (47:01) Don't encourage do it. David (47:04) She was absolutely valid to be upset. But she was also missing the point of the rest of the episode. Through her seething rage, she missed the point of the rest of the was that you were trying to give excuses to all these young men for being... Rob (47:06) No, Allison. Allison (47:12) you Rob (47:12) Well, right. All right. I'm gonna, I'm with you. Allison can't be encouraged because if she is encouraged... Allison (47:22) You David (47:23) She'll come back and she'll make... Rob (47:24) It makes me question my patriarchy. And goddamn it, if you make me question my patriarchy, I am not going to sleep tonight. I want to sleep. David (47:33) it at the meeting worry, we'll resolve it at the meeting. Allison (47:35) you Rob (47:35) Later, did you get the goat? Is a goat gonna be there? All right. All right. Allison, you keep going then because we're good because we've got a meeting later. David (47:38) We have a go. It's alive. It's alive. Allison (47:46) Okay, I'll just keep talking then. the other thing that was just kind of like yes not Rob (47:50) Wait, Allison (47:56) Yeah, this is under my third David (47:59) This Rob (47:59) ⁓ okay, okay. David (48:00) sub, sub point Allison (48:02) Yeah, so this is subpoint 3B. Also, David (48:04) Bravo. Rob (48:05) Yeah Allison (48:07) know we weren't specifically talking about the male loneliness epidemic, but did you there's only a 1 % difference in male loneliness and female loneliness with all of the headlines that I saw after I looked into it, I was like, are you kidding me? So it's something like 15 or for David (48:24) Wait a minute, so we didn't bring up something we weren't talking about? Holy shit. Rob (48:28) wait, wait, Wait, wait, wait, wait. Allison (48:28) You did! It is the male loneliness epidemic because that is connected with this these like this idea that people are so lonely that they're getting drawn down into the alt-right pipeline because they can't get with women. Rob (48:34) All right. Yeah, yeah. David (48:40) you're talking about it so and inform us enlighten us Rob (48:43) No, no, this is a- Allison (48:43) I'm so glad. Rob (48:45) Wait. David (48:45) I think I said it pretty clearly. They're behaving really badly. Nobody wants to fuck them. what I said. Rob (48:49) You David (48:50) can't blame him. If you're gonna be an asshole, nobody's gonna wanna fuck you. Rob (48:53) Well, that's historic. think we're at a point where, you know, that is... Historic's not the right word. That is so ingrained in us as a culture that, yeah, of course, if you are distasteful, no one wants to be with you. But, Allison, please help me on this one because... What you've Allison (49:14) right. Rob (49:14) just said, so here's the statistics that I know. 65 of males in the 18 to 28 year old range are not in a relationship. And the corollary to that is that women in that age group are in relationships at a normal percentage. What you're talking about David (49:39) is loneliness. Allison (49:40) Yeah, have you not seen... David (49:41) Well, but no, the loneliness correlation actually seems to have a lot more to do with social media. And we did talk about that on our, but we did touch on it. The loneliness rising heavily in that population. Rob (49:53) touched on. David (49:58) But it has a lot to do with the disconnect that people have because they're so attached to social media and the connections that they're trying to have aren't connections. And that when they go and they overshare on the internet, they have no reciprocity emotionally, real empathy back at them. feel more lonely in spite of the fact we're more connected. The loneliness factor is going up. is related to this? The Test of Rage Max? it's a wonderful drink that really helps you connect if you're in the same room as somebody. Allison (50:26) You Rob (50:29) Yeah. Purchase at all the places you purchase your fine energy drinks and steroids. Allison. Allison (50:35) think what I was thinking about is how much the media is focusing on this male loneliness epidemic. There are so many headlines about it. And you couple that with their not being able or wanting, I don't know, to have a relationship. It's, yeah, I think. I don't know. don't like, so do 65 % of these boys like, or men, I guess, want someone or are they just kind of happy dating their AI? Okay. They're just happy dating their AI chatbots. Rob (51:01) That's the implication. David (51:04) Yeah, I don't know that we can. I don't know that we could. could. We're not. they're I don't know that we're in the heads of every last one of them. I think the implication would be that. Rob (51:08) No, don't think they're happy doing may be doing it. David (51:17) the general public, they to be in relationships, are not. female are relationships and normal rates. And so there's something that they're doing is making them. Rob (51:27) Yes. David (51:30) I'm gonna use the scientific term here, Rob (51:33) Right, right. That's in the DSM-6 actually. David (51:36) It is, yeah, the ICD 10 code is. Is you. Rob (51:39) what in the curiosity to me is does not imply anything other than 65 % of men in this zone not in a relationship. personally think that's a problem, because being in a relationship means not being exposed to the feminine. not being exposed to the feminine perspective, the feminine experience, allows them drift into these internet bubbles in which it is the incels. It is the, whatever, insert thing. But when you look at women, 18 to 28, statistic is radically different. are, a majority of them are actually in relationships, with older people who I figuring this out, or they're in relationship with children. So we have an epidemic pedophilia, or, or. Allison (52:37) you have forgotten that LGBTQ plus people exist. They're just dating each other. David (52:41) No, Rob (52:43) No. David (52:43) not be lectured by a bunch of perverts. Rob (52:45) Right. No, I have not. have not. This is talking about relationships. This is not who you're in a relationship with. Yeah, is who you're in a relationship with. David (52:51) Yeah, it's not talking about man, woman. It's talking about relationships. And I one of the part of the... No, no, we... Allison (52:57) why I'm saying that they're... that women are dating each other. Rob (53:00) Hmm? David (53:01) not all of them, but some of them certainly. Yeah, no, of course they are some of them, but some of the men could be dating each other and they're not. so is it the 35 % of the 20 to 18 to 20 year old males are just dating other 18 to 20 year old males? Maybe, but. Rob (53:05) No. Yeah. No, Allison brings up actually a relevant glad you brought it up because this is No, no, this is a... Well. David (53:19) Why are you giving this to her, We had her at perverts. Rob (53:23) Well, Allison is advocating for perverts, clearly. No, she is What Allison is discussing, and this is something, again, from our perspective, and this is the limitations of perspective of three guys who end up, three are heteros. David (53:43) Whoa, Freudian. Rob (53:44) already, yeah, for any slip. Heterosexual guys who are topics. The statistics whatever 18 to year olds are not in a relationship. That is not connected to who they're in a relationship with. It's not saying, it's out of that statistic. That is just the statistic. That age group. And then when you compare it to women of that age, and that's irrespective of their sexuality, it is radically different. A majority women in that age group, regardless of their sexuality, is in a relationship. That's what we were talking about. David (54:32) we Allison (54:31) I'm the women are just dating each other. David (54:33) Well, and we don't, yeah. Rob (54:34) No, no, no, no. defies statistics, Allison. just laid it out really clearly. I'm saying relationships versus some relationships. It does not say David (54:36) Well, I don't know that you could say that, but Allison (54:42) you David (54:43) don't. fair to say that having, that being in adult relationships is a part of developing that sense of being man, that sense of being a woman, successfully navigating adult relationships as part of that growing up that sense of self. that's a huge lack. Rob (55:04) Well, David (55:05) for that group. Rob (55:06) at the risk of being too many, years ago, never does. Because many, many years ago, got a review from a resident. I gave a lecture. And they said I was too luke-quatious. David (55:09) Yes, that's stopped you before. Rob (55:20) And I looked at that and I was like, I'm fucking on point, right? Look at me. ⁓ and then I had to, I had to look the word up and, I turned it turned out. Yeah. It turned out I was, too wordy, but, my take on this is that in the modern world, we prioritize masculine and women can be, successful in that. David (55:25) shit was that me? I love using that word. I didn't use that word. Loquacious? Chatty. Rob (55:44) world. And I realize Allison's going to have a different perspective on this and all the problems and challenges that come with being it. you can be successful you can be reasonably psychologically even healthy as a woman in this world. Men, on the other hand, have always required the feminine. that we have a lack of ability engage in our own femininity. if you look at Jung's perspective on this, the animus, the anima, which is basically yin and yang, Men can't do it. Women can to an extent, but neither one of us are doing it well. And there is a Allison (56:28) say that women have to or they men die too, obviously, but like it's immediate survival that women have to navigate this. Girls and women have to learn to navigate this and boys and men don't seem to. So then they're left later in life kind of fumbling around like how do I talk to and like girls and women had to do it. Rob (56:33) They do. I agree. No, I'm with you. I'm totally with you. No, I'm totally with you and the issue that I'm having is that... David (56:51) Yes. Yeah. Allison (56:54) seems to be optional for men. Rob (57:00) It's a grand scheme issue. It's a big picture issue that the satisfaction, contentment is lacking on both sides. That men are the necessary femininity to be a fully realized man women are lacking as well to be really fully realized and we're seeing dissatisfaction on both sides. it's not as much of a battle as we feel it is. It's versus them it is not an Allison versus David. I'm clearly in the middle, I am clearly the voice of reason. I mean, clearly. David (57:41) Yes, you've shown yourself to be the middle of this discussion. Rob (57:42) Ha ha ha ha. But the sense of human satisfaction requires both. And we're just not seeing it. We're just not. Allison (57:52) And Rob, is why patriarchy hurts everyone. That is why. Because, yeah, drink. men are punished if they are crying or tearful. if express any emotion other than anger, It's more likely to be punished. patriarchy. Rob (57:57) Drink. David (57:59) drink. Rob (58:09) You're making me angry. Right David (58:11) we successfully aired the Does this conclude Festivus? Allison (58:13) you Rob (58:14) now I'm angry. Allison (58:16) I'm ready for prescriptions. Rob (58:17) I'm looking at your face and I'm just pissed. Allison (58:20) You Rob (58:20) Hahaha! David (58:22) All right. get to prescriptions. It's prescription time. Rob (58:26) Allison, I think you should go us a prescription. do we fix this? Allison (58:30) I think I should. all would like all young men to read the book My Name Chanel Miller. Chanel Miller wrote a very widely acclaimed book about her sexual assault at the hands of sexual assaulter Rob (58:31) Be ridiculous first. Allison (58:50) Brock Turner, who most of the media coverage was about his very light sentence and that he was a swimmer for an impressive college. She wrote a book about her experience called Know My Name that I think everyone should read. She has the most beautiful writing. If you get the audio book, she is the narrator and it's beautiful. It's difficult. And I think everyone should read it. David (59:15) That young man couldn't eat steak. Allison (59:16) Exactly. His dad famously wrote a letter to the judge that said that poor Brock, an adult man, was just so upset about it that he could not enjoy his steak dinner anymore at his favorite restaurant. David (59:17) He couldn't even... sad story. rape one girl on camera and all of sudden you're some sort of monster. Allison (59:35) Yeah, yeah, that's actually how it goes. Rob (59:35) You know. David (59:35) What is this world turning into? What is this world turning into? Rob (59:37) There's... ⁓ That is so profoundly emotionally impactful. Thanks. There's no. Allison has destroyed humor. Thank you, Allison. There's no. Allison (59:45) He al- He also said, you have to laugh about it because this man sat down to write a letter and said, this is gonna do it. This is gonna get my boy. And it worked. also said, why should my boy, I'm paraphrasing, obviously. should my son be punished harshly? Because it was only 20 minutes of action. There was some quote like that that I can't remember right now, but it was also disgusting and hilarious. Rob (59:51) No, you don't. Yeah. Right. David (1:00:12) That's a humble brag, right? Allison (1:00:13) If you read the book, you'll know that he was not able to rape her with anything other than his fingers. Sorry, sexually assault. That's what I think the actual charge was. Rob (1:00:24) Yeah. David (1:00:24) can't enjoy steak. mean, isn't that punishment enough? You know? Rob (1:00:28) yeah, you know, Allison being a guest host, real may not realize that killing humor, really fucks us up. And, she killed humor. this young woman was assaulted and, there's nothing funny about it. Nothing. Zero. Allison (1:00:40) you Rob (1:00:46) right, thanks, Allison. Do you have any more prescription? No, no, no, you're absolutely right. I think all of us would benefit from reading something like that and empathizing with it. Allison (1:00:47) Yeah. You asked me for empathy. The last, the last, the last there's my empathy. Rob (1:01:02) What does it feel like to have agency stolen? of your own from you? And if you can tolerate that, if you can tolerate the experience of that, even imagining what it is, this is what this young woman went through. many women go through. David, do something ridiculous and funny at this point. Come on, David. No, you can do it, you can do Allison (1:01:26) You David (1:01:28) It can't do anything ridiculous and funny. It's that there's What happens in those situations is unimaginably tragic. It's a violation of... beyond what most of us imagine. And unfortunately, think everyone theoretically experience it in some way. is person for healing for her to write a book express what happened and perspective of it and say, this is what happened to and I haven't read the book and I need maybe get my takeaways from it. Allison (1:02:01) I also think that... this experience that's just so much a part of life for so many women to have such an impact on you guys, which is really sweet. David (1:02:07) No, there's, Allison (1:02:09) she also wrote a middle grade book about, like a kid's book. It's really good too. Magnolia Woo Unfolds It All. That one's really good. If you're not ready for a super intense read. David (1:02:20) I I can handle it after our meeting tonight. Rob (1:02:22) Yeah, god damn at the end of this. Challenging. emotional experience. Allison (1:02:28) Here's also an option. We could change my prescription to talk to a woman. Rob (1:02:34) Ha ha ha. Allison (1:02:35) Literally just like talk to a woman. ⁓ maybe we could do it like, sorry, sorry, sorry. Listen to a woman. Listen to one David (1:02:38) Like a back and forth conversation or talk at a woman. Rob (1:02:44) Wait, wait, wait, we just talked at a woman. just talked at a woman for an hour. Allison (1:02:49) Listen to one woman. Maybe I should have like a stepwise. Step one, just listen to one woman. Step two would be maybe Magnolia Woo unfolds at all. And then step three, the advanced course would be. Rob (1:02:56) Alright. there's a lesson learned is never let Alison lead prescriptions. Allison (1:03:07) probably true. Rob (1:03:07) Never. David (1:03:08) I mean, give you a silly prescription. I'll put it first. Rob (1:03:10) No, just don't let Allison I don't even have a silly prescription. do have a life experience just Googled it, YouTube it, tried to find it and I can't find it. And I can't tell you when it happened. I don't know if it happened early in my military career. or early in my medical school career. a YouTube video out there of a cop giving a perspective of how he was sexually assaulted. in a way as a police officer. in which they were trying to just purely humiliate him and he had no choice it has always resonated with me sense of lack of agency, you have no choice, no power, no control. if you can find that prescription is listen to it. it, changed my life personally. changed my perspective, interact with every single patient. I went from a stance of not being a potential victim. to every individual I see is a potential victim. So that would be primary prescription. My if I was just trying to make people feel better is don't engage with Alison ever. don't do it. She makes you feel bad Allison (1:04:27) You Rob (1:04:32) having known her for quite some time at this point, she made me feel bad for, I don't know, the better part of what Allison, what is it? at least 17 years. Yeah, at least 17 years I felt bad. and you know, before. Allison (1:04:41) It's been like 17 years. David (1:04:47) There you go. That's, that's a glowing recommendation for a psychiatrist. Rob (1:04:51) Yeah, before Allison, I felt pretty good about After Allison, not so much. David (1:04:56) my prescription is if. Rob (1:04:58) Holy shit, I thought you already had David (1:05:00) That wasn't a prescription. was just talking about, yeah. My prescription would all the men 18 to 28, they can post anything on the internet, anything at all, it has to be read and approved by the oldest living female relative in their family. Rob (1:05:03) ⁓ Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Allison (1:05:19) This is just more work for women, I hate it. David (1:05:25) That's my prescription. If that's the only way to get them to learn. You know why? Because if they had done their job the first 18 years, they wouldn't have to be doing it the next 10. All right, Allison? All right, Allison? If me, ma. Rob (1:05:34) Wait, wait, wait, We talking about the women now if they'd done their job? ⁓ Allison (1:05:39) Yeah. David (1:05:41) Hey, what do you keep? You keep talking about the femininity. Allison (1:05:41) That's a hot take, David. Rob (1:05:46) your mom's problem. David (1:05:46) You understand it's not a real one, Yeah. No, I don't think I think if, uh, if, you had to run, if, if you had to approve, about this? How will have a group of women gladly volunteer to review this crap and they can do it. Fine. Paid. Fine. We will have paid. We'll have, we will have, we will have Rob (1:05:49) Ha ha ha. Allison (1:06:00) Oh no, paid. They're getting paid. We're done with unpaid work done by women. David (1:06:11) paid ramblings of all the 18, 28 year old they post anything and before it can be posted, send button even pops have to approve whatever corrections. We can do with Is that a good prescription? Does that work for you, Allison? Rob (1:06:25) We'll do that. Allison (1:06:27) Yeah, that's a lot of money. You can just click no, no, no, no. David (1:06:28) It would be a lot of money. hopefully the the goal eventually they would figure out to just rage posting garbage Rob (1:06:34) So makes me we have to bring Alison back and we have to talk about the reality of women in modern professional worlds and how they are greater than 50 % at this point. David (1:06:37) to the dark web. Rob (1:06:50) not enough time and my tolerance for bourbon is not high enough. David (1:06:55) we're good at this we've come to the conclusion of this episode. thank you so much for being here. Anybody who's bothered to stick around and listen. Thank you so much to our tens of listeners. smash that subscribe, hit like, do whatever the social media platform asks you to do. Whatever your Rob (1:06:56) for us. David (1:07:14) platform is looking for, go ahead and subscribe As far as our newsletter, go to our website, sign And if you comments to you're like Allison, you can just text us with all grievances until we finally to let you come on the can give you a platform. Allison (1:07:31) Yeah, is that how we're saying it happened now? Not that you were begging me to come on the show? David (1:07:35) No, we'll beg. No, we begged. We did. begged. We begged Alison. We invited this. go lick our wounds. We will bandage up. We'll be ready for the next show. And thank you, Alison. And until next time, we are looking forward to another one in the future, soon. listen to the next one and make a list of all shit we got wrong so we can correct it. Rob (1:07:39) We begged. We begged. Yeah, thank you, Allison. Allison (1:07:56) You David (1:07:57) We'll have it posted here soon. And cue up the music and we are out. Rob (1:07:58) Yeah. Play the music, buddy.