Old Crow in a Gold Bottle

David (00:00) Sometimes you put old crow in a fancy bottle and hope the gold trim does something magical. It doesn't. That's kind of where we are politically. keep confusing the container for the contents. Confidence for competence, salesmanship for a man in an office for a man who could actually do the job. And when the job starts breaking, the salesman does what salesmen do under pressure. More pitch, more denial, more blame. So this week, it's about the vacuum that we bought, the engine that we watched him hit with a wrench, and why the rest of us still have to decide whether we're just going to stand there and pay for the repairs ourselves. This is Shrink the Nation. Let's go! David (01:16) All right. Hey, I'm David. got 20 plus years in the military. I'm a board certified psychiatrist. And today, today, Robbie, I am drinking Old Crow out of a fancy we got. Somebody gave me this crystal bottle and what I've been learning from our show, Rob (01:28) You David (01:34) is that if you take something shitty like old crow, but you put it in something that's lined with gold, It's fucking terrible. what I've heard about old crow is that the first class not so great, but the second one is better. feel Rob (01:41) It's still old crow. Right. Well, let's face it, people that drink old crow's going for the eighth and ninth glass is really where their is. And for our long-term... David (01:56) Well, here's the thing is like normally, normally I wouldn't do two glasses, is old crow, I'm thinking not a third, know, why not a 47th or a Rob (02:03) I got exactly. Yeah. And that's how you wake up a week later behind a dumpster with a dead raccoon next to you wondering about all your life decisions. However, for our long-term they will probably finally recall that Old Crow is best drank in an alley behind a dumpster. really where aroma really augments the flavor. David (02:27) It really does. And honestly, in some ways right now, I feel like been behind a enjoying this in an alley, sleeping on cardboard box that's been laid out flat. That's how this week feels to me emotionally is what I'm getting at. Just reading through the news today. So this is what I'm drinking. Rob (02:28) Yeah. Ha ha ha. Yep. David (02:47) looking forward to our conversation. Rob (02:47) Okay. Well, excitingly enough, David and I have gotten in the habit of taping relatively early. It's been a while since we've actually hoisted a glass to one another. not expecting great things, interesting ones. I'm Rob. Everyone knows how long I've been doing what I do, if they've been listening. I am drinking Buffalo Trace evening. The fine folks at Buffalo Trace, they make middle of the road bourbon, a little bit rye, good price point, enjoyable bourbon, much better than old crow. David (03:19) Fair, I think what we need to start off with is an apology, Robbie. I need to apologize to our president of the United States right now. As a I should have spotted and maybe you and I together should have spotted that. If you take a guy who is incapable of doing a job and you put him in that job, that he's not going to magically be able to do that job. But I think what as psychiatrists, we really should have been able to understand is the amount of anxiety that probably comes with that realization at some point that you are so ridiculously incompetent to do the role. and what that must be like for somebody. I have apologized. I mean, this whole time we've been really beaten up on the guy for what he's been doing. And what we haven't been understanding is the fact that, just an old man. I mean, this is just a regular old guy he just got put into an office. This is old crow. I mean, this is old crow put into a fancy bottle is what we're seeing. And as it turns out, if you put old crow into a fancy bottle, it doesn't start tasting like quality bourbon. It still tastes like shitty old crow. And that's on apologize. I'm not sure why we thought that because he was put in the White House that he would act any different than he always has. That's on us. Rob (04:46) I don't know if we did think, but we as a nation thought. David (04:49) what I'm getting at for us as psychiatrists is that the crushing, overwhelming sensation it must be like to wake up and find yourself so in the deep end, just over your head and not knowing how to swim. Like that's gotta be especially when you're kind of go to things that you do. things that in your own mind make you successful, like stiffing contractors and just not worrying about Filing bankruptcy, and those things have always kind of worked, but then you wake up one day and you realize, shit, can't, I can't file bankruptcy. I can't just stiff the contractors this time. Rob (05:17) guilt, gilding things. David (05:31) I got to start making decisions, is every decision that you make fucking blows up in your face. And so the only thing you're left with is a regular guy, for a regular person, which Donald Trump is, he's just an old man. Like he's just a regular old man who has access to a lot of money. that has really clouded his judgment, at some point, You start working down this pipeline of just a fake reality. I mean, and we're seeing this over time and time again now with the, you know, the truth social posts in the middle of the night. almost worry about him has gotta be terrifying. It's got to be scary to wake up and be the president and realize you're just not fucking able to do it. Like you're just not fucking capable. That's got to be awful. Like the most terrifying experience. Almost as terrifying it. it's got to be awful. Rob (06:19) Almost, almost. I would say it's a close second, but I would give you that. My question for you though how frequently do you think he's actually aware of this? David (06:30) I think every night that he has tweeted or to social or whatever the fuck you call it, it seems like he becomes aware in those moments and the rest of the time, like when he's around other people, he's able to be calmed by the constant reassurances that what he's saying, what he's doing is the right thing As his decisions are opposite of the country's on fire and he's like more gasoline and they're like excellent job, sir, care of the problem I would just say build a Hundred million dollar ballroom. I made a four hundred million dollar ball. What what the fuck is going in that thing that it's gonna cost four hundred million dollars It's like a big empty space, Rob (07:01) Build a ballroom. an arch. A lot of gold. lot of gold. David (07:13) well, that'll make it you got like two routes, right? Like you can, you either go down that path of believing it, which I do think during the day, as he's surrounded by people, kind of buys into that old bullshit, right? It's getting high on your own supply, drinking your own Poolead. But at night, when... the demons come a-knockin' when it's just you and your anxiety. you wake up in a cold sweat and you just have to tweet out this false reality. shakin', shakin', terrified, coming up with in all caps, you know, attacking anybody who said anything bad about you, because of course they Rob (07:42) whatever bullshit thing. David (07:52) It reminds me of if you remember on Seinfeld, there were the this of escalatingly elderly men who every time they try to like pick something up, they throw out their back, but then the next dad comes in even older. Rob (07:51) part of the gig. David (08:08) He's like 90 years old and like, what He threw out his back trying to lift that TV. He's like, that TV? They're like, yeah, I thought he could do it. I feel like that's the world we're living in now. That if you put on a shirt that says world's greatest dad, he starts to believe that that's true when not the world's greatest dad. Rob (08:28) take this premise, and I think we have reasonable data to support what you're saying, but let's take a step backwards. Why did we do this to ourselves? David (08:36) Well, okay, so I've been thinking about this a lot all kind of wake up in the middle of the night going, oh shit, what's this guy's got access to the nuclear codes and there's nobody around him that's going to stop like the first would have occurred to a throwback to, you know, a few episodes ago, you had talked about Rob (08:42) Yeah, no doubt. David (08:54) somebody close to you getting rainbow vacuum And that's really, I think what we're seeing from this was he's a You know, that's what he is. He's a fantastic salesman. He can get in the door convince somebody wearing a white suit and white gloves to buy a ketchup on a hot day. what we're seeing now is that he convinced some odd percent of eligible voters or those who voted that not only was he selling a vacuum, but that he was going to clean your house. And if the vacuum broke, he was gonna fix And as it turns out, he's never used a vacuum. He has no idea how to clean a house, but more importantly, he's got no fucking clue how to fix a vacuum Rob (09:41) test the machine. We fell for the pitch. You know what this reminds me of, the mental picture I keep getting, is we basically bought a flow we're standing in front of the mirror. We're standing in front of the mirror, and we're wondering why our hair looks like shit. Where did my hair go? We fell for the pitch. David (09:50) Hahaha! Rob (10:00) And anyone who's been up late on a Friday, Saturday night, I don't even know if infomercials exist anymore, but they featured prominently into my teen and early 20s. Anybody who's watched an infomercial and fell for the shtick, bought it sight unseen, and then found that it did not live up to expectation. David (10:20) And what's really crazy about this is that guy was there just there last week we bought the previous vacuum and it didn't fucking work. It didn't work. He didn't fix it then either. But he came back a week later and said, but now I'm going to. And we were like, yes, I mean, it's he's a he's a phenomenal salesman, I think is what it comes down to. a nation, we bought it. Now, we're having to grapple with the stress of having this salesman living in our house, not cleaning it with a broke ass vacuum that ain't gonna work, a fucking he's raiding the fridge and just emptying it out. and filling it with shit we don't want or need. He's using up all the toilet paper. He's doing all the things that you don't want somebody doing in your home, but you invited him in because he said he was gonna be awesome. And we gotta deal with that. And there's just no way to get him out. The squatters rights in our state apparently are just, they're just golden. here to stay for at least a few years. Rob (11:19) you've got to, it's a process. You got to go through the whole process. It's a nightmare. So here's the question, buddy. do we do this? Why do people, US population, what made us think that this individual was qualified to do this job? David (11:37) I mean, that's a head scratcher, to be I mean, in the first maybe played a bit of a role. So in the first administration, he did surround himself with people who could in some ways do the job. Now, what we weren't seeing was that they were acting as the guardrails to his shenanigans at that point. And so whenever he would want to do something crazy, they would say no, or they would distract him with some golden keys, I'm sure they have like a golden set of keys to like jingle in front of him. And then he would get distracted and move off in another direction. So was just he wasn't running the show People were distracting him from the really dangerous stuff. But then he got wise to that They didn't see that coming. Now, I mean, I think a lot of us saw that coming, but he kept insisting that it wasn't right. Like he kept saying, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to project 2025. What's that? I've never read it, which I believe, I believe he's never read it. But He was just a great salesman. Rob (12:33) You think he's ever read a throw some psychological terms at you because this is something that I've thought about. heuristic equate certainty with competence. And it's a human thing that someone who presents themself as certain. And that's probably because most of us have certain inadequacies and fears, uncertainties about ourselves, lack of confidence. If someone's confident, we sort of project upon them we were that confident, we certainly would know what we were doing, right? there's also the halo effect. And success in one domain somehow bleeds over into, or the idea at least, bleeds over. It's one of the annoyances that I have when somebody is running for office and says, you know, I was a successful plumber and now I'm the secretary of Homeland defense. I, a successful businessman. I'll be a successful politician or a successful leader, governmental leader. That really doesn't translate. And I've got some great examples of that. mean, examples, hopefully people, everyone knows. Elizabeth Holmes, I think is an awesome example of this. She was the CEO of Theranos. So she was magical at selling the future of medicine. She just had no ability to actually build it. So Michael Jordan, best basketball player of all time, but a complete utter failure as an owner. He did a terrible job as an owner. So success in that domain. And then the one that I think really is going to drive this home is Mike Lindell. He made a killer pillow. Fucker made a great pillow. Was not good at uncovering a national investigation on voter fraud. Different jobs, different jobs. But we see a successful person and we make that assumption that they could be competent in other realms. And that's on us, brothers. That's how we're wired. not It's not stupid. It's truly how we're wired. We didn't mistake incompetence for competence. David (14:28) Yeah, and it makes sense. Yeah. No. Rob (14:37) We mistook confidence in one arena for competence in another, and we were wrong. David (14:44) it is natural. think this is something we do. I alluded to this in the past, but it's where we try to empathize with somebody else's perspective using our own, which is what our brain is going to do. We think, wow, this guy's got so If I had that much confidence, I would only have it because I was truly competent to do the thing. So you're just looking at it from your lens but you're ignoring their lens. And so of course it's a natural thing. Now I do think there is some, thinking that kind of goes into it as well. It's not just, well, this person's really confident and I'm gonna go with that. I think part of it too is you're thinking I would really like to see those things occur. so you are more likely to believe, like let's Theranos as an example, the idea that it was possible to get such amazing lab results from just a tiny drop of blood sounded awesome. And I think we all wish that it was possible just to do a finger stick and get bunch of lab results. for even. And so it wasn't just that it was too good to be true, it was that it was something that we really wanted to have happen. Now, there's another piece of that where the experts who were looking at this technology, who were aware of the amount of lab equipment, the amount of a sample size you would need. to test blood, were like, this is bullshit. They were just raising their hands saying, wow, this is, yeah, there's no way this works. I would love to see it. And they of course wouldn't let you, but it's nuance. People don't want that. want that easy answer. what we've seen with him, is that he'll give you the easy thing and then leave out the details to get to that. It was, I have the concepts of a plan to fix Medicare, to fix the healthcare system. Okay, what's the plan? I have concepts of a plan. Sounds great, he's gonna do it. when those two, things that confidence and that desire for something just run into each other. Man, we got problems as a country. Rob (16:56) Well, of like the system at large, something else that occurs to me is that a leader like this comes into a system, so think about most systems, institutions, whether they be businesses bureaucratic organizations, the government, the United States, it becomes sort of a system cognition. system is doing the thinking. Our experts are our error correctors. So they're the mechanism by which we correct error and then dissent is reality testing. And with leaders like this, disables the system's ability to tell truth because it becomes this positive feedback loop. They can't tolerate dissension, which means reality drifts. They demean experts. So we never have that error correction and it really pulls the system a distributive cognition into a zone one might even reference as psychotic. we're not living reality. We really are not. And I'm struck by this constantly. not gonna bore people with Iran even though I'm constantly thinking about it. What I am absolutely stunned by at this is working on 10 weeks or we'll soon be working into the 10th week. There is a catastrophe coming. It's on the horizon. David (17:53) One My. Rob (18:12) a supply catastrophe. There is no mechanism by which this supply, even if this thing ends tomorrow, there is no mechanism that this supply problem can fix itself in six, eight, 10, 12 months. Best six months, if it ends tomorrow. I don't know about you, buddy, but I paid $5.05 for gas per gallon today. That's up $1 from last week at this time. So it's starting to move, nobody is screaming about almost psychotic. The reality that we are actually facing, we are pretending it's not reality until it hits us in the damn face. David (18:51) Well, and I paid $551 today. yes, it's actually that's might be a little bit cheaper than it was a few weeks ago. So hey, I'm super excited. Rob (18:58) For some reason it hit the Midwest all of a sudden. So Michigan, Indiana, Ohio had the three highest jumps in the nation. But it's coming. We're pretending like it's not. The markets are pretending like it's not. It's gonna hit and when it hits, it's going to hit hard. David (19:14) Well, and I've been grappling with this kind of in my own mind, because the thing that just came out, was this the, we're not actually in a war. We're not actually because there's a ceasefire. just came out. so now Congress, it doesn't look like they're planning implement the War Powers Act. Which is actually important thing to understand is if they don't implement it, if they don't hold the feet to the fire, it's just not going to Now, when Rob (19:39) Hey, point of order, Mr. Prime Minister, point of order. you have a ceasefire, by definition, you are in the midst of a war. not a ceasefire, it's just peace. David (19:50) you have a, yeah. you have a blockade of somebody's ports, that is an act of war. People would, would argue. So, no, I mean, and I think we could sit here and argue, is what I was thinking about was why did that maybe Rob (19:50) Peace is David (20:08) Congress would push the envelope on the War Powers Act. Like, I'll tell you what I was thinking. I was thinking that, Hegseth and Trump would come in and just ask for more time. That's what I thought would happen. and that they would just give it to them. Like I figured he would, they would say, Hey, we want more time for this war. and that Congress would say, yeah, cool, go for it. Now, why did I do that? my brain really spinning at this point, because what I'm realizing is my lifetime, position has always had competence in it. I'm looking at it as if the person who's in there is like all the other presidents who have come before him. And I'm doing that. And so if I'm doing that, gosh, what is everybody else doing? Probably the same thing or something similar to where they think, well, he's the president. It must mean that he has some competence. And I have to keep reminding myself, no, he's just an old. man who has taken advantage of every situation he's been in everyone a liar when things don't work out and talked about how everything is against him when it doesn't work even before it doesn't work. he sets himself up for success 100 % of the time calling the final score. And then if he happens to win saying, yep, everything is great. But if he loses just saying, well, it was course he's coming up with some bullshit about why this isn't really a war, even though it's a war. Rob (21:36) Well, mean we sort of opened up by saying he's a salesman at heart. He's a salesman That's what he's been successful at He's never really had a product that was worthwhile He's really great. I mean he really has it. I don't I think he had Trump Right, right Trump's stakes. David (21:49) Come on, Trump University, that Trump University diploma on the back of your wall there, Robbie. Rob (21:55) I think he had Trump oysters at one time, which can only imagine the risk one takes when you eat Trump oysters. David (21:59) How much, how much Trump coin do you own right now? Rob (22:02) How much hepatitis A is really what for those Trump oysters? David (22:06) Right out of the Cuyahoga River. Rob (22:08) So regression under stress. As a psychiatrist, we know this, that people don't get more sophisticated under pressure. They get more themselves. So what we have to really think of is that he's not gonna create new skills. He's going to go back to his default skillset. So what happens with a salesman when they're under pressure? move from David (22:10) Yes. Rob (22:29) persuasion to pressure. They move from this optimistic presentation to denial and messaging becomes distortion. Any of us who's ever went in to buy a car knows this, that at first they paint a picture of you with your skis in the back, driving into the and as it becomes less and less effective, The pressure starts. That's the, I'll give you your keys so I can go, value your car. And then they won't give you damn keys back. make it like your fault that you've eaten up their time. They start to distort things on you. This is what salesmen do. And what we're seeing from him is absolutely, persuasion becomes pressure, confidence becomes certainty without evidence. David (22:55) Yeah. Rob (23:11) Optimism becomes denial. Messaging becomes distortion. And if your only tool is persuasion, every failure looks like an audience problem. It's not his problem. It's our problem. If the markets keep buying his bullshit, everything's fine in his mind, even if it's not. David (23:28) Yeah, right. I guess that's why chastising myself for even thinking that there would be some normalcy that he bring to this party. this is on me like it's really on me to think it was capable of that change. I mean, as a psychiatrist, like I have seen people change, but they've had to want to. Rob (23:42) I agree. David (23:48) And it's taken a lot of time. Like they've had to put a lot of effort in, but people don't just spontaneously change. And I guess what I want are tens of listeners and honestly anybody else to think about is if you know somebody who is 80 years old, think about would you give them your car keys? you hand that person your car keys and be like, yeah, yeah, gramps, go down to the store and buy bread. Do you expect your car to come back with a loaf of bread? It probably not. You're probably thinking, no, no, no, I'll do that. I'll do that. I got it. I got you, Gramps. Sit in your chair TV and talk about racist Complain. Rob (24:17) No. Exactly. off-collar Say off-collar things and grumble about your health. that's exactly it. So right now, I the amazing thing is essentially watching someone try to repair a broken engine by just giving it a better sales pitch. the machine's broken and Trump's still workshopping slogans. between the two, they do not meet. David (24:29) Like. But he's not. He's worse than he's not just workshopping slogans at the same time. He's just grabbing random ass tools and throwing them at the engine in hopes. And he's confident. He's like, yeah, he's what one big swing of this And it'll that it'll it'll purr like a kitten. it's not. like a wrench just fucking hitting the belt. Like we're just watching in horror. Some of us, but the problem is there's a bunch of people that are back there going like, thought he could do it. and they're excited. So God knows he's fixing it. Yeah. I told him I would, I would throw a wrench right, right in the middle of that thing too. Like, you don't need that. Rob (25:09) Be light. ever been anywhere? this happens to me as a guy all the time where I'm thrown in with a bunch of other guys, whether I know them or not, we gotta make small talk, not everyone's expertise is the same. So it always turns to cars, guns, and sports. almost invariably, at least where I live, cars, guns, sports. And there's always that guy. And I'll admit, they start talking cars, I'll be yeah, I mean, I can speak to like what cars I'd like to have, but I'm not gonna speak with any expertise. But there's always that guy that tries to play along and he's like, that a four cylinder in there? Because the only three things he knows, yeah, the only four, six and eight, that's what he knows, that there's a V6, there's a V8. David (25:57) Is that a got a V4 right there, a good looking V4. Rob (26:04) And then a four, and you're right, a V4. you know, says it with a great deal of confidence. It's not really adding to the conversation and certainly does not revealing any expertise. And here we sit. And every time I see news conference, I think about that because he's throwing terminology that he's heard experts say, but he doesn't have mastery of the subject matter. David (26:28) think that's, well, I don't think it stops him. Yeah. I guess that's the other thing is, got your 80 year old grandpa or whatever and he starts talking and you kind of just zone them out. You know, you're just like, whatever he's saying. somebody's like, did he just fucking say what I heard? You're like, I don't know. I just, don't listen. He just sits there. He's so he yells at the lawn. he just, Rob (26:27) And he's 80. Then he says some off-collared shit and complains about his health. It's Grandpa. David (26:48) I want to see that. Rob (26:48) Yeah, he's got Lewy David (26:51) we'll talk about psychiatry a little is this is what we have running the show, our our allies, to the rest of the world, is starting to kind of go down we just don't trust anyone. They're trying to take advantage of us for pushing them is not the perfect analogy, I will admit, because that borderline personality is usually predicated off that fear of abandoned what I'm seeing is that our country is pushing people away and we have a flawed belief these acquaintances of ours, our allies, We feel like they're acquaintances, so they really can't go anywhere if we keep pushing them away and acting erratically and accusing them of shit. You came home late. Damn it, Britain. I know you're fucking Italy behind my back. We're we're losing our shit on them and we're accusing them of stuff, but we're missing the point that they're not family. Rob (27:41) Yeah. David (27:49) they have no obligation to us beyond just being like, yeah, we're, we're cool. We'll go along with you. Like you're a nice person to hang out with when you're being normal. Like we really like you when you're stable, when you're, yeah, when you're hitting the sauce, you become a fucking nightmare. You get loaded up. You get loaded up with all that methamphetamine that China keeps sending. And Rob (28:00) when you're not, you're not drinking. Okay. I hate it when you drink the whiskey, you get mean. David (28:12) and you just go off the handle. our allies, they're starting react as if we're not capable of coherence and in these close relationships Rob (28:23) Well, it bothers me too. I'll talk an attachment theory. We had some really secure attachments. I guess fooled ourselves. David (28:29) Or we'd really say it was like Rob (28:30) We thought those attachments equated to loyalty. And it turns out that it's always been contingent upon us not being chaotic. And we've kind of forced them into more of an avoidant attachment stance with us, just purely through our own chaos. We actually have talked about this. We have talked about the, the ramifications to our alliances, our allies around the nation and how this is gonna be a tough thing fix. Because once you establish yourself as I am back to Iran. so Iran's control of the Strait of Hormuz was a theoretical. They theoretically thought they could do it, but they never really proved it. And now we've given that opportunity to prove it. The idea that we could turn, that we could be a destabilizing force might've been an idea, but now we've taken it from the theoretical that no one ever experienced in 80 years of our history to like the legitimate, like, God, this is not a country you can trust because they have this unified, executive theory, whatever. Yeah. So every four years, and they've proven, they'll put an incompetent man in the seat. So we can't trust them. We can't build decades long relationships because every four years we might deal with this. David (29:37) Unified executive theory. Yeah, unified executive theory Rob (29:56) your significant other, how do you apologize? I mean, how do you come back from that? You don't. It takes years prove yourself again. David (30:04) Yeah. Well, and they got to really want to stay in the game and you got to be willing to change. now I know that it's impossible for somebody, even in country to go back and change, but I think you have to, at that point, I think in order for our allies to look at us and say, okay, not hitting the sauce anymore. They went away for four years, but you know, now they're back AA. gone through the 12 steps. you they're just to love themselves at this point. fuck us anymore. Rob (30:24) Alright. Their skins cleared up, beer belly's gone. David (30:38) doing better. But in order for us to really, I think, prove that allies, I think we would have to have some significant our laws to make sure that we don't fall off that wagon again. would be very important to do that. One thing, though, that I have to bring up, because I think we're really pouring it on Donald Trump I don't know that that's fair. I don't know that it's fair to say that this Because because really, like with the whole War Powers Act, that's not, it's not the president's job hold himself if he gets drunk and wants to fight the biggest guy in the bar, Rob (31:05) No! David (31:18) I mean, should he not do that? No, probably not. It's a dumb thing to do. But it's his buddies that are supposed to be like, no, man, like, you're not going to take him. Like he's going to he's going to kick your ass. You got to stop it. You're not going to win this fight. And that's where Congress I want to blame at this point, and I'm going to blame them all. It's not it's not just the House, not just the Senate. It's not just Republicans. It's not just Democrats. It is everybody. And I mean that because when your buddy is drunk and he wants to get into an altercation, you got to be willing to get between them and pull him away at all costs. Even if you don't have all the power, at the very least, you got to be like, come on guys, like we got it. We can't let this happen. And they're just failing across the They're just not being good buddies. They're being terrible buddies. And they've been terrible buddies this whole time because they've been telling him Rob (32:03) Yeah, yeah, yeah, ⁓ David (32:09) No, dude, you're like the biggest, baddest motherfucker here. Have another drink. Keep going. Like we got this drink, drink, drink, drink, drink. Like they're buying them Jaeger bombs and they're, Rob (32:14) Yeah. Right. girl over there in the corner is looking at you, David (32:22) Mmm. Yeah, that sexy Russian girl is all about you man. Like you got to get some of that. they're just egging him on Rob (32:28) Right. authority in a democracy is granted that authority is maintained through a collective agreement. Power in a republic is a group project. I fear we've forgotten that we're part of the group and I'm including Congress and I'm including us as citizens who David (32:47) Yeah Rob (32:48) the power is still there. It does require quite a lot to corral that power among the citizenry tangible thing. David (32:58) what this reminds me of, like what you're talking about, is, ultimately the people are the ones who give the power to the representatives, they elect representatives to the Congress, and they elect the president, but they elect the representatives too. And that's their job. And what right now, what I'm not hearing enough of, Rob (33:05) are to blame. David (33:18) is that Congress has abdicated their role as equal member of government. I'm not hearing enough of that. I get that this president's not playing by the normal rules. Well, you know, there something beneficial about when one person's not playing by the rules. Not everyone else has to either. And what this reminds me of is when my daughter was three years old, she was at a daycare and every day they'd have like nap time. they would just make these little three year olds lay down and just be quiet. And then eventually it would like fall asleep and that was great. But one day she wasn't tired, right? Like she was just, she wasn't ready for a nap. And she goes, I don't want to take a nap. And they're like, you must take a nap. And she looks around she goes, wait a minute, there's only one of them. And there's like of us. And she attempted to stage a coup at the daycare center, tried to get all the kids up to just stay awake and not do nap time. at this point, it's like, well, you know what? If you're not happy with your congressmen and you can look it up, it's not difficult to look up whether or not they have voted on keeping this war going and fucking with your wallet and the fuel prices. Because I'll tell you, it's really simple. They haven't voted on it. I'll tell you from here too. They have not voted on this. I'll take it back. There have been votes, but they've all been shot down. So go look up your congressperson. Do it right now. Go look up your congressperson and find out, did this person vote to extend this conflict so that we can keep tank of gas? And if they have, if they voted for call them Write a let them know. that they're not gonna be your representative anymore. You know, if enough people, there's only one of them. And I think we've gotten so used to this idea that, there's only one of them, they're not gonna listen to me. Well, you know, they do listen to votes, they do listen to primaries, they're terrified of the primary. Right now, they're more afraid of Donald the 330 million Americans Who elected them. They're more afraid that Donald Trump is going to say something nasty about them, which he fucking is anyway. Like even when he brings them up on the stage, he still talks shit about them to their face and then says, vote for this they're more afraid of him than they are of their constituents, just not voting for them I don't want to be the kind of person who guarantees anything, but I can tell you that if you live in a district with a million and 500,000 of them call and write your office every single day and say, I'm not voting for your sorry ass again. If you don't stand the fuck up, you will listen to that. If you want to maintain that position. And if you don't great. against these clowns, because they're just not doing their job. that's where I'm I've stunned you. Rob (36:09) No, David (36:10) insist that the government perform their function. we're seeing now is they're not doing their job. their job right now is to say, no, the War Powers Act says that after 60 need to ask us for an extension so that you can draw this down. You need to stop this war or we need to declare war. they're not doing that. They're just not doing their house. spineless. Rob (36:32) What? and by the way, David is not calling for a coup for the United States. His daughter attempted to coup a daycare. We are not, the official party line strength the nation, is not a coup. It is not a coup. David (36:44) No, it's not a coup. It's for people to use the one thing that they have. We have social media. We have the internet. We have phones. We have the ability to reach out to our representatives en masse and say, do your fucking job. Do your job. That's really simple. It's not a coup. a warning that we're not going to keep electing fucking clowns and expecting that we're going to get anything but a circus. because that's where we're at. We're not guy made some racist fucking crazy statement one time and he got in trouble for it and people were upset. And so he ran for Congress he's gonna fucking stick it to whoever. That's who we're electing right now. Stop fucking doing that. and you call his office up and tell him to fix the swamp that you live Fucking fix it. Rob (37:39) Although in his defense, he has some of the most visceral accounts of combat of anyone that I've ever read, particularly striking being that he is a man who has never been in combat. The smell, David, the smell. David (37:51) Yeah. I was talking more about Joe. Yeah. I think I was talking about Joe the plumber, but the smell of combat. You could smell the flesh. You could smell the flesh. It reminds me of the Outback Steakhouse that I went to last night. Rob (38:00) You never forget it. You never forget it. of Mark Wayne because he deserves it. his dad built a hell of a company. Apparently he did some good work there too, but whatever. Yeah. It doesn't in Homeland Defense. It just doesn't. David (38:09) His name is Mark Wayne. I'm not going to dispute that his ability to run a plumbing company is great. The guy knows his shit, literally. But don't think it translates to the Senate. Anyway, and it's not about... mean, the truth is we could rip into Democrats. It's everybody at this point. And there are more the ability to vote. Rob (38:28) It's... We could. We could. David (38:37) against these people. right now, and I'll tell you, this is from a psychological perspective, we believe that because we voted for them, that they're going to have our best interests at heart. the truth is, not only fucking told you what you needed to hear to vote them in. And what they're doing is they're listening to lobbyists. and they're concerned about their own survival because they're terrified of Donald Trump. And what I'm saying is don't let them be afraid of Donald Trump's tweets because who he is not on Twitter. Don't be afraid of those. Be afraid. He is, I think, but he's not really Rob (39:15) He now. don't know what you call it, what he does. David (39:18) He does, yeah, whatever he does. But what they should be afraid of is that millions and millions of Americans are sick and tired paying $80 for tank of president doesn't know how to get out of a conflict that he didn't to get into. Rob (39:41) apparently doesn't know geography. so you're hitting on something that it's been coalescing in my brain. always thought of corruption as a third world country problem, a Russian problem. imagine Chinese problem, North Korean problem. We live at a time of probably the highest political corruption in at least the last, probably since the 20s maybe. well, I know what happened. Right, a complete collapse. David (40:06) Yeah, what happened in the fucking twenties that turned things around, right? Those were good times. Wanting to go back to pre-industrial revolution the greatest time that this country ever... It's just an insane prospect. And if anything, I got to blame the American Rob (40:21) Well, yeah. David (40:24) education system for not teaching people that guess what it fucking sucked in the fucking sucked. Rob (40:31) Well, a f- a lot. David (40:33) think Trump wants us to go back to 1890 when his grandfather or great-grandfather, somebody was fucking over the people that were going to San Francisco or whatever. when he made his fortune, I think he just wants to go back to those days so he can stick it to his old band. Rob (40:42) The- sure it's probably the Irish getting hosed. But anyway, we exist at a time of incredible political corruption. it's been driven by things like, gosh, the unlimited amounts of money that, know, basically, the sway that our ultra wealthy have on our politics now has pulled the power away from the people put it in the hands of the ultra wealthy because they're the ones that can fund the ads which end up drawing in the people David (41:18) not just the money, right? Like it's owning the algorithm. It's controlling the algorithm. Like when you go and you look at the inauguration, who was sitting in the front fucking It was Bezos, it was Zuckerberg, it was Musk, it was... Is there another one? There's probably some other rich fuck that was there too. Rob (41:37) Don't you look at Elon Musk and think that he probably smells rather musky? do. find it ironic, actually. David (41:43) I bet he, no, I think he probably smells of Tahitian vanilla. That's how I imagine. Rob (41:49) looks sloppy to me, but whatever. sure he has an algorithm that's gonna pick up that somebody said he looks sloppy and I'm probably gonna get banned from. Luckily I'm not on any of those things. However, yeah, the power both financially and technologically now sits in a group of people's hands who have way more control over our politics than we as a people have. David (42:11) But that's psychological. It's not just money though, Robbie. mean, if you control the algorithm, like if you're on Twitter, I know you're not on Twitter, but if somebody's on Twitter, whether they follow Elon Musk or not, he is gonna hit your feed with the most heinous, not real shit you've ever seen. what the studies have shown is that if you're Rob (42:11) and what we have because you just. David (42:34) on it and you're exposed to it and you're seeing it, you're going to move in that direction, whether you want to or not. And I think that's what concerns me is that it goes into a person's own belief system based off principle that the more you hear things, the more real it gets. It's that illusory truth principle that we talk about all the time is that if you hear it enough, you're going to believe it. And that's what they're doing is drilling it into your brain. Rob (43:02) You make a valid point, but if you would drink Old Crow and let me make my point, I'm going a different direction here, brother. David (43:10) Make your point, make your point. I was just cleaning up. It's not just money. It's not just money. It's the echo chambers. It's controlling the echo chamber. It's controlling the message. It's making sure that when you see Donald Trump talk you are somebody who might vote for him or could be swayed to vote for him, that you are gonna hear coherent things that go along with what you believe. it's not Rob (43:15) It's, let's. from an incoherent man. David (43:34) talking about absolute fucking nonsense most of the time. And you wouldn't have, you would not have invited him into your house to sell you a vacuum cleaner when you realize the guy doesn't know what a fucking vacuum is. So yes, please make your point. Rob (43:35) Yes. Whatever. No, my. Well, no, I'm sure he's never vacuumed a floor. No, my point is, let's just encompass all that into corruption. That whether it's technological corruption, financial corruption, it's corruption. it gives them way more power. And you just earlier were making the point that we do have power. There's 330 million of us. There's like 15 of Ultimately, the ultra wealthy, there's I don't know, 20 maybe. David (44:13) Yeah. Rob (44:14) But where we get stuck is that learned helplessness at scale. So we feel like we don't have any power. We can't compete. You're absolutely right. What we have to figure nation and ideally I would love to see us implement some laws that limit things such as contributions, access politicians, et cetera, et cetera. Term limits. I would love to see some stuff like that that would help mitigate some of these corruption things. Hold on, let me finish. David (44:44) Just the number of people in the House of Representatives like we used to do so that they were only representing 100,000 people at a time would make massive changes. It would be so much harder to gerrymander. Now AI might make that possible, but yes, I think being able to do that. Don't get me drunk on old crow and then expect me to shut my fucking mouth, Robbie. Rob (45:07) If I said. If I say three words, will you start talking again? No, what we have to somehow crack the nut of in order to get there is figuring out how we mobilize the power that we do have. Because a lot of what is going on right now is energy and effort to keep us separate, to keep us warring among ourselves, even though those of us who are well below 90th percentile on down, those of us who live in that zone, our vast majority of people, we just need to overcome this learned helplessness at scale, mobilize the power that we have, and do something about this. And it's possible, it's been done before. David (46:00) I mean, I'll argue. I'll argue that it has been done more recently than that. What you had, you had Donald J. Trump, one of the most prolific failures in American history, elected into office based off of people wanting change. Rob (45:58) took a depression. David (46:15) It was absolutely a grassroots movement that allowed that to happen. was mobilizing the power of the vote against the Republican establishment had no interest in this. They did not want him to be there. It wasn't until he was there and they realized how much power he controlled by convincing millions of people that he was something that he's not. that they decided to get on board and they started to acquiesce to all the horrible things he would do. And they would do that. They would go, well, I don't like the way he goes about it, but I like that he's moving us in a direction that benefits me. But it wasn't benefiting the people. It's never benefited the people. And now expanded corruption to this point that can it turn around? Yes, it can. not gonna come the Peter Thiels. It's not gonna come from Elon Musk. It's not gonna come from Bezos. It's gotta millions of people are willing to vote against that corruption. in an odd time. I'm not talking violence. This isn't a violent thing. This is... Mobilizing your vote using your voice because you do matter what matters more is that more people are getting fed up with Being led down the road of chaos what is it gonna take for people like us getting attacked? an enemy we were weaker now with Hegseth at the helm with us blowing Rob (47:38) it be I- David (47:47) billions of dollars in our munitions on Iran, not even a conflict, right? It's not even a real war, whatever. we are less safe today against our greatest adversaries than we have been a long, long time. Rob (48:01) there's no doubt. no doubt. We build weapons in order to defend ourselves and to project power. And we are currently at a state with fewer weapons. So yes, we are less powerful for having done this. David (48:15) We just proved, but we just proved we couldn't even take down Iran. I mean, I guess we just showed the world that not only tiny hands and small peepees. Like we've been walking around with our hands in our pockets and a potato pretending like we were a lot tougher than we are. And then we just got knocked the fuck out. Rob (48:23) We could. God. David, I would have went with something like, I would have went with like, Cabalsa sausage or something along those lines, a potato? I mean, what kind of weird... David (48:45) Oh, there's goes back to a joke. It goes back to a joke that one of my super racist God rest his soul, used to tell about a potato it in the front pocket, not the back pocket. It was just anyway. Rob (48:51) ⁓ yeah. I get it. get it. As I said earlier, David (48:59) He would tell it super racist with like an accent and everything was horrible. It was horrible. yeah. Yeah. Rob (49:06) That's just terrible. I'm cringing just imagining. God, the idea of the potato has me speechless. I think it's time to put a bullet in this episode's head. David (49:16) Yeah, everyone take a look at the three year old girl's diary and use your voice, rise up, realize there's way the fuck more of us than there are of them. emails. make this even more just chef's kiss, use AI to draft the letter. You want to really fuck with these people, go to AI and draft a letter, ask it where to send promise you, you will come up with some really great stuff. It will make it really super easy. Just be like, I'm really fucking pissed off that I have to pay this much in gas. And it will tone it down so that you're not threatening or anything. And you can send that off. You can send 50 of them off. be like, fix your shit, man. Fix your house. Be a buddy. Get this guy out of his own mess. Change his diaper. Do whatever you got to do. Control the old man because he's just an old man. And if you wouldn't give your car keys to your 80 year old grandpa, you give control this guy just because he thinks he's Rob (50:13) just reminded me of a quote. I'll drink. so this is a Carl Jung quote. Yeah, it's bad. David (50:17) drinking. This is awful by the way. I've been, is the third glass. What I will tell you people, the third glass is no better than the It's still old crow as it turns Rob (50:25) It's no better than the first. Yep. thing is, it taste better, but it does somehow give you more motivation to keep going. David (50:31) Let that metaphor sit with you. Rob (50:38) That's the weird thing about Old Crow. Well, that apparently is their business model. It's like, this is never gonna taste good, but if we can crack this nut that makes people wanna just keep drinking, we'll take it. We're at something. So Carl Jung said, people don't have ideas, ideas have people. And that's what it strikes me is that what we're really looking for. David (50:38) Maybe there's meth in it or something. Yeah, you're like, I'm ready. maybe there's caffeine in it or something, I don't. Rob (51:02) is an idea that captures people, that mobilizes people. I think they're coming though. And the irony here is that the man that I feel like most threatened our democracy might end up being the man that actually saves it, just not how he thought. So, chew on that folks. So prescriptions, I got one. The public must relearn the difference between competence and competence. Competence feels like safety, competence quietly creates it. If you reward the first and ignore the second, you don't get leadership, you get theater. And we are in the midst of a lot of theater. David (51:38) We are. Absolutely. My prescription is probably not going to be as eloquent as yours, but really what it comes down to is If right now you're starting to feel the squeeze of the economy, conflict that is Rob (51:45) Drink more, old crow! David (51:54) A war is not a war or whatever the fuck. mean, the guy talked endlessly about how he couldn't call it a war, said war like nine times and then said, but we're calling it a Rob (52:02) Because my people tell me I'd get in trouble if I say it otherwise. David (52:05) Yeah. And so as you're getting tired of this, I want you to think of the next time you go fill up your gas tank. and you do not write your congressman and senators, letters to tell them to put on their big boy pants and do their fucking jobs. What you're paying is not for a war. What you're paying is a tax on your laziness. So just imagine every time it costs 80 bucks, and you're not doing something. It's a tax on laziness. Rob (52:34) Ha ha. Ha ha. David (52:36) my prescription is every time you pay for the mistakes of this administration and you don't do anything about it, it's a tax on laziness let your voice be heard more than any of these guys who are not fucking special. So do your part, everybody. Write your congresspeople. All right, Robbie. What do you think? Is that it? All right. It's an episode. It's good to have the bourbon back. Rob (52:56) Killed it, killed it, yep. ⁓ It definitely animates you, my friend. It animates you. David (53:06) More than actual caffeine, so I don't know. ride this dragon a little bit longer and see how Rob (53:09) Yeah. Hey, here's a challenge to our audience. If we get more downloads on this episode, you're gonna flip us over into morning drinkers. We're gonna be doing some day drinking for you people. David (53:22) I will do some fucking day drinking if we can get more people to listen to our episode. even if it's just you getting your sweet old elderly grandmother to just click and play it as she's passed out in a chair, that's fine with me. Like let's get some downloads and we'll be drinking my friend, we'll be drinking. Rob (53:40) Yep. Yep. Even if she's in a vegetative state, just, put the earbuds in, let it go. Yeah. David (53:44) Just play it on repeat. Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, subscribe, share, hit like, do all the things that I think most people aren't probably doing at this point. But for those of you who are, you know, loyal listeners, man, we love you so much and we will, we'll day drink for you too. All right. So that's it. Let's cue up that music, Robbie, and we'll be on our way. We're out. Rob (53:58) We do, we do. We will. out.