The Presidential Writers' Room

David (00:00) You ever notice how a political story can become so clean that reality starts feeling like the inconvenient part? The war isn't a war. The department needs war in its name. Homeland Security is apparently at war every day. And somewhere in there, Starship Troopers is designing uniforms and Alcatraz is making a comeback. Stories help us understand complicated things. We need But a useful story changes when reality changes. The trouble starts when reality is a thing we keep rewriting. This is shrink the nation. Let's go. David (01:09) Alright, hey, we are back. I'm David. I am a psychiatrist. I have military time. more can I say? today we have a special guest again, which is awesome. I'm gonna drink three bourbons, if I can get to all three. I'm starting off with what I assume will be the lowest tier. This is simply bourbon, is what it says. Actually, it's members mark. Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey and for all of you Walmart shoppers, yes, that members mark. This was a gift, but somebody saw it. They thought, Man, who likes really shitty whiskey? Me. And they Rob (01:40) It's David. Yeah. David (01:41) sent it to David. So that's what I'm gonna start with and then I'll announce as I go from there. have no idea what the mash bill is, but kick it over Rob (01:48) First. David (01:48) to you. Rob (01:48) Hey, it's Rob, also board certified psychiatrist. David (01:52) Smooth. Rob (01:53) smooth, many several decades military service. Amit (01:57) At least six, seven. Rob (01:58) yeah, six, seven, somewhere through there. this evening I'm drinking gosh, what am I drinking? Woodford Reserve, that's what I'm drinking. And I did have to brave a very scary liquor store. and that's what happens when you just ask Siri to take you to the nearest liquor store. I really did question myself as I pulled into the parking lot. But then I thought, you know what, Rob, it's time to nut up. It's time to be a man here. you've gone to war. You can get into this liquor store. And I barely made it out of there unscathed. So I think it'll enhance the flavor, I'm pretty sure. David (02:34) I heard the iPhone Duo has a feature now that if you say Siri take me to the closest liquor store, a breathalyzer pops out. And if you blow over the limit, they just send you an Uber. Amit (02:45) Ha ha. David (02:45) Cause I'm pretty sure the only Rob (02:46) I'm shit. David (02:47) people saying, Siri, take me to the closest liquor store are already pretty hammered. Rob (02:51) Yeah, well, I'm sure I'm on a watch list now. Yeah. Wouldn't be the first one. Amit (02:55) I'm sure that teachers come for sure. David (02:57) Told you had the new iPhone. Amit (02:59) One of these days, Hey guys, I'm Amit. I'm a psychiatrist as well, board certified adult and child, twenty years in, and I am drinking a newer whiskey, Ichiros Malt and Grain World Blended Whiskey. Simply because it was recommended to me by a salesperson in Tokyo. So straight from Tokyo. David (03:16) It was very Rob (03:17) Excellent. David (03:17) cheap, and there was no commission for sure. Amit (03:19) It was it was something in yen, I have no idea. It was thousands of yen, okay? Thousands of yen. Rob (03:23) Yeah. Now, truthfully, I've had several Japanese whiskies and I've not had one that I disliked. they have a very bourbony quality. And in fact I think they're kind of made almost identically to bourbon. They just can't call themselves bourbon because they're not made in the United States. Amit (03:43) It's fair. David (03:43) Well, unlike my communist comrades here who don't love America apparently because of their whiskey selections, I love America and I'm just drinking the Walmart version. Actually, Rob, I was kind of annoyed. I'm not gonna lie. We recorded our episode last week thinking that we had the summit of insanity that was the tweets, the bleeds, all the things that were coming from sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue. And then New America showed up. And was so pissed. Cause we had already recorded by that point, so we just had to go with it. But I will tell you, Robbie, I was inspired. And I think for the rest of This show, we're gonna be shrink America. So Amit (04:23) Yeah. David (04:24) All right, everybody. Welcome to Shrink America. Amit (04:26) New label. David (04:27) New label. Amit (04:28) All right, let's shrink to that. David (04:29) Let's Rob (04:29) Yeah. David (04:30) let's get at it. Rob (04:31) Three hundred percent less communism. David (04:33) So this week even just spilling over from last week, we've had some of the most insane stories to talk about. there was one that came up that as soon as I saw it, it reminded me of couple other stories that we hadn't really talked about before. And so What the hell? Let's talk about him now because it runs along the same theme. sometime last week, Donald Jalopi Trump sent out a message saying that the new uniforms for the Space Force are going to be inspired by Starship Troopers. Amit (05:06) Amazing book. David (05:06) I everyone says that. They're like, the movie was Amit (05:07) So movie, but amazing part. David (05:09) movie was alright, but I like the book better. The Interesting thing about that though is that the uniforms in the movie were inspired by Nazis, you know, Patrick Rob (05:20) Yes. David (05:20) Harris Dugi Hauser himself was put in an SS officer's uniform at the end of the movie specifically to just drive home the fact that this was a fascist regime that didn't know that it was a fascist regime. What's our take? I'm not in the Space Force, but gosh, how good must it feel to know that your next uniforms could very well be straight from nineteen forties Germany? Rob (05:44) they had sharp uniforms, but I David (05:46) That's true. That was one of Hitler's qualities was his ability to be very stylish. Rob (05:51) style was Amit (05:52) JFI. Rob (05:53) potentially his decorative tastes as well. so yeah, for our listeners who've not read the book by Robert Heinlein, the book is radically more nuanced than the movie. the only thing the movie gave me, and why I know this, I do not know. I I can't attest. David (06:09) Was it an erection during the shower scene? Rob (06:11) I Amit (06:11) That's a given. Rob (06:11) don't yeah, maybe. Amit (06:13) Yeah. Rob (06:13) I do remember the shower scene. however, Amit (06:15) What should we scene, yes? Rob (06:16) I know the name of the lead David (06:17) All I remember. Rob (06:18) actor who Amit (06:19) Yeah. Rob (06:19) is Casper Van Dien. And I don't know why I know him, because I don't think he was ever in anything else. And it it really does. David (06:26) 'Cause of the shower scene. Rob (06:27) Well, it highlights how my brain is set up to memorize stuff that I just don't need to know. it just sucks in that information. But the book is incredibly nuanced. it is militaristic. I don't believe anybody can look at Robert Heinlein's life and say he was a fascist. However, the director who directed Starship Troopers wanted to make it more satirical and absolutely played up the fascist elements of it. So this design was inspired by the Nazi esque uniforms and symbolism of Starship Troopers. It has not been adopted. So this isn't official. It was just proposed via bleat. David (07:12) yes, that is true. I don't know that it will be adopted, but it also reminded me of the time in September of twenty twenty four when Trump had proposed one really violent day, one rough hour of extraordinarily aggressive policing to address retail crime. And it just so happened that The purge movies had been playing on cable for that full week before then. And so I wondered, because I just had to know. Was Starship Troopers also playing on cable? And it turns out, yes. So Starship Troopers was playing on August 30th on the Sunday its T V channel. And then about a week later, Trump came up with these ideas, which then reminded me of his little comment in 2025 where he thought to reopen Alcatraz. And the night before that, in South Florida, where he was, PBS was airing Escape from Alcatraz. So it Got me thinking how many of these ideas that Trump is having are just because of the fucking T V he's sitting in front of. and it scared me a little bit. It scared me a little bit, Robbie. Amit (08:20) You gotta get ideas somewhere, right? Rob (08:22) Well you do. and to be fair, we have no evidence that Trump actually watched it. However, there seems to be a budding correlation here that might be concerning. I've spent thirty years in psychiatry and in the military, and I don't think I've ever once begun planning a meeting asking What's on TNT tonight? it's farcical, but this wouldn't be the first farcical thing that's actually come to be in the last several years. David (08:51) I was also thinking, remember that comment he had made about trying to get powerful light into the bloodstream. and that just threw me back to underworld. because they had those UV bullets, The ammunition to kill the vampires. I wonder how many of this guy's great ideas are coming from media. I know he spends a lot of time watching television. I assumed he was watching himself. Rob (09:11) well apparently before we start analyzing federal policy we need to get one of our people assigned to the T V guide. maybe every time something crazy comes up we need to look at the listings for that past week. Amit (09:24) What was playing beforehand, yeah. Rob (09:26) Yeah. David (09:26) we could definitely joke. we definitely have no evidence that Donald Trump is watching movies and then coming up with policy at all. I have no no evidence to support that. I do think it's kind of funny that some of his ideas happen to be straight from the plots of movies that also happen to be playing on cable around the time that he comes up with them. Rob (09:46) And interestingly also as if the whole movie or the point of the movie wasn't really taken into consideration. For example, designing your uniform after the movie Starship Troopers, which was depicting a fascist state, is similar to designing the new CDC logo based on the movie Contagion. didn't really play out like Escape from Alcatraz. It was about dudes that escape from Alcatraz. And then the idea that came from that is we need Alcatraz back. Amit (10:18) But think about it, It's something that people identify with, You know Alcatraz, you know those movies. So we have to say very little to get people to come immediately associate with those symbols and those ideas, And that recognition is on brand. That's what makes it more powerful. Because how many people really actually look at the movie Starship Troopers and say, Hey, that's what that was about they know what it was. They know it was a cool movie. now it's cool, it didn't do too well when it came out in ninety seven, but now it's cult classic, so I don't know. And the name sounds David (10:46) They just knew those space Nazis looked sharp. So should we. Rob (10:49) is there anything scarier than space Nazis? David (10:52) Yeah. Yeah, there is. Don Rob (10:53) God, brace yourself. David (10:54) Donald Jorts Trump taking office is scarier, Rob (10:58) G? Did you mean Jorts? I David (10:58) J. George. Jordan. Rob (11:01) thought you maybe were going with Jorge. David (11:03) No no, George. Donald George Trump. Rob (11:04) George. Okay. Got it. Now, in maybe his defense and maybe to pull us into something a little more psychodynamic, the reality is that stories are really important to us as humans. it is how we sort of organize and understand the world. The world's very complex. So throughout the history of humanity, stories have been important to explain ourselves and to depict human experience in a way that is accessible, understandable, and transmissible that we can pass this down by word of mouth. so, the power of starship troopers might actually be etched into our DNA. Amit (11:47) Yeah, stories is how you explain the world around you, So if something doesn't make sense or is too complicated, making a simple story, identifying major themes, things around you, and putting them out is how you get people to recognize what's going on and you get to make a narrative as to, hey, this is kind of what's going on. It makes more sense than, thinking about abstract physics or whatever else is going on. Rob (12:10) Yeah, and they're efficient. there's an efficiency to them because they give us a narrative, they have a setting, a protagonist and antagonist. there's conflict, there's some decisive action, there's resolution. And in the real world, that doesn't exist. well, it's close right now. there's potentially an antagonist. however it makes it clean and I believe in the political science world there is an entire study on narrative policy framing or basically taking a policy and then building a story around it that is accessible by people. The explanation of some esoteric policy is challenging, but if you can make it a story, and politicians have done this for ages, it's most noticeable usually at State of the Unions. So at State of the Unions, the president is supposed to step up and he's supposed to tell a story. a story about how the nation is doing. And very often, at least since I was a kid, presidents invite a person, some person that they tell their story as a demonstration, as a way to depict the good that they're doing. it narrows it down. It takes it from policy and complications and legislative processes down to something that is digestible to the average human. Amit (13:27) Well, every administration needs the gurbles, Twist the narrative into what makes sense to get people excited. Rob (13:34) He had an impeccable sense of style too. Dapper, in fact. David (13:37) Yeah, and I don't know that the and I Rob (13:37) Didn't end well for him. Didn't didn't end well. David (13:40) I do think this is really common within politics and it's certainly something that's important. it doesn't necessarily mean that it's stupid that it's done, or even out there wild that it's being done. the concern that we would have is when this story being used as a model for reality becomes a replacement for reality. And that's where I would get concern. maybe a lot of people should. A lot of people are saying, Robbie, that it's concerning when the president of the United States wants to take Alcatraz and reopen it because a story told the story of this strong, great rock prison, when the reality is that it wasn't really that great of a prison. It was incredibly difficult to get supplies to it and stuff away from it. have you been? It's great. It's actually a cool tour. But it's not a particularly great prison. Rob (14:31) to be clear, the ideas of stories conveying something important, not stupid, the idea of opening Alcatraz, stupid. So I'm not defending the conclusion. I'm just saying that it is not surprising to me that a story captures the imagination because that's what they're designed to do. Amit (14:51) At the same time, if you have a story and you say this is what reality is, when reality is not exactly that, and then there are cracks in the story because reality is different, a lot of times what we see is then there's more stories and more explanations that make little sense in reality, but they're done to make the story more viable. And so then you get people flocking to this really distorted image or really distorted sense of events going on because that's what fits the story narrative and that's just getting further Rob (15:21) Yeah. Amit (15:22) and further away from reality. Rob (15:23) Yeah, you're reminded and this is relevant to us, the three of us. So, I have spent an entire professional career building maps. and that's kind of what you're talking about. That there's a quote, big surprise, everyone get ready to drink, but the map is not the territory. So you can look at a map, but that's radically different than making your way through the territory. So when we see a patient, the patient gives us their childhood, their relationships, their genetics, their temperament, their history of trauma, their symptoms. We infer their defenses, we know what medications they're on, and we build a formulation which is basically a map that helps us explain this patient. And I imagine Correct me if I'm wrong. you spend time with these patients, you know them for years, you build a pretty detailed map, and then something happens in which all of a sudden they step off the map and that you do exactly what you just described, Amit, which is just expand the map. You just adjust, you Amit (16:27) Yeah. Rob (16:28) you do some kind of ad hoc thing because you don't want to give up your map. you have invested in this in this. Amit (16:33) That's a great formulation. I spent hours there. Rob (16:35) Exactly. I really thought this damn thing through and now they've done something that does not fit the map. so they're hard to give up. So once you do buy into a story, it's much more likely you're going to have these ad hoc add ons to the story rather than giving the story up. Amit (16:54) When you're invested into something, especially when it's hyped up and there's a lot of people, that you feel connected to, It's harder to give that up when things suddenly start to fall apart. You're looking for anything alternative to explain that, And then whatever's thrown your way, you'll catch that up because it's much easier to again salvage that story, that narrative, than to realize, I was wrong. Or that didn't make any sense. I just wasted my last two months or last two hours, thinking something was true and it was really not. That reminds me of a story actually, in one of my clinicals. one of my supervisors told me about treating a paranoid patient. And this patient was extremely paranoid, and so he was talking to him. guy was like five feet away, there was a lot of space between him and the psychiatrist. And so the psychiatrist is talking to him, and the patient suddenly gets this weird look in his eyes, and he's looking behind him. And so the psychiatrist asks him, Hey, what's going on? What happened? and the patient looks at him and goes, I know you just touched my ass, I just don't know how. So, that's reality for you. Can't convince that guy otherwise. Yes, and contemplating that struggle. David (17:53) I'm listening guys. I'm enjoying the back and forth. 'Cause it's going a direction I didn't expect it to, which is great. like having extra bodies on the Rob (18:00) I guess at least in my mind what we're talking about here is stories are a way to simplify. and a good story does capture something that is very challenging to capture, makes it simple, makes it understandable, breaks it down into sort of a protagonist, antagonist, a decisive moment and a resolution. We like that. that makes the world make sense to us. Amit (18:21) Yeah. Simplify. Rob (18:22) Yeah, the simplification is not necessarily the problem. That's not where the pathology lies. The pathology lies in the loss of the ability to error correct. Because once you buy into the story, you don't want to give it up. So anything that deviates, your tendency or most people's tendency is to still adhere to the story. The story's right. This is just an outlier. And I'll tell you particularly in the military planning world. we walk into this with our best intelligence estimates and our assumptions and named areas of interest. we can identify where the centers of gravity are and where the decision points are going to be. you use that as a commander, you use that to formulate your commander's intent. The lack of error correction though is where you get in trouble because No plan that I've ever developed or helped develop actually survived beyond about 30 seconds after the point where it needed to survive. And then you have to correct. And that's one of the reasons why we have incredibly effective military force is because we train our people, we give intent rather than necessarily direct orders. I don't tell someone how to take a hill. I just tell them. go take that hill. and then they can adapt on the fly. But when you tie yourself into the inability to error correct, it does create a problem. And that problem compounds the further and further away from the story that you get. Amit (19:47) you have to really assign somebody with that job, Because if you have a group and you're coming up with a story, coming up with a plan, it's really hard to step outside of that group mentality because you agree. You kind of move along, And think about the concepts of mission creep. Think about the concept of, even the telephone game, You have something and you slowly change it and it doesn't seem to be a big difference, It still makes sense, but now suddenly you're getting away from your initial objective and you do it enough. Everybody feels like, hey, we're still going the right way, but suddenly you're completely off base from what you were trying to do. You're no longer meeting the requirements, And unless there's somebody external who can say, Hey, what the how are you guys doing? that's not what we're supposed to be doing, That's not gonna get corrected in that group mentality until much later on or when it's too late. Rob (20:28) Yeah. yeah, I think gold standard in at least in the military planning world is you certainly have to assign someone to red team it. They have to red team the decision making process and it's useful. And it's one of the things that actually frightens me about our current politics. I'm not sure how much red teaming is happening. at sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue, at this time in history. David (20:52) Venture to guess not a lot. Not a lot of red teaming. as you guys are talking, I'm wrapping my brain around this idea that people are fed these Stories they just start so far from reality. and they stick with it. And I can understand, it makes sense to me why Donald Juggalo Trump would want to say that January 6th was a day of love. It makes sense to me why he would want to say that. Yeah it makes sense to me why JD Vance wants to say that the war in Iran is not actually a war because it's just not good for Amit (21:30) Is it is it just me or does that give you some Putinesque vibes hearing that? David (21:36) Yeah it gave me something. but so I get the reason why these guys are behaving in this way. I don't quite understand is the reason why their followers go along with these. asinine depictions of reality this wasn't a seed that was planted that eventually bloomed or was it? Maybe I just missed that. Maybe I'm missing that process of this narrative developing into the bigger story where I'm just hearing it on the back end. Help me Amit (22:06) I think David (22:06) out here. Amit (22:07) you have to keep in mind that there's not a lot of error correction, as we talked about, done in an instant public forum, you're putting out information out there. If you have a position or you have followers, people listen to you, what you say is the truth. there's no second guessing about it for the actual followers. Now people who hear it secondhand who don't quite have the same mentality might think twice about it, but unfortunately, for certain personalities, certain people, the virtue of their position, what they say is just taken at face value. And then it changes people's viewpoints 'cause they feel like, no, that's the truth. So I gotta now rethink myself, reshape my perception to make that true. And then now you start expousing that to people around you because it's true. David (22:49) And I definitely see where something will be on camera. Amit (22:53) Mm-hmm. David (22:53) there'll be video of it. obviously in the last few years, there's been more AI. And one of the things with AI that people have been warning about was this presence of deep fakes. And you saw that there was a commercial that Paxton, such a quality individual, top notch guy made of Talerico, where he was saying some stuff, I don't know, but there was a deep fake of Taler Rico in a Paxton commercial. is it surprising that that's sort of now being weaponized, this idea because if you recall, during the campaign in twenty twenty four, there was some event that Donald Trump was at and they were having an issue with the audio and he ended up instead of giving his speech, he ended up just DJing the music off of his iPhone or iPad or whatever device. And he just sort of stood there for like forty-five minutes dancing. and yeah, yes, he's doing that dance, Robbie. you nailed it. And when you bring it up, you'd say, No, there's video, it's like forty minutes of this guy just dancing instead of doing anything, the response was that's not real. That's AI. AI made that up. and that seems to now be the response. that's the go-to. anytime Donald Jockstrap Trump says anything that his followers wouldn't like, the response is, well, that's AI. That's a deep bake. Amit (24:11) Well, don't forget all the fake news, If something comes up, right, similar. Rob (24:13) Yeah. Well if it David (24:14) Well, that's been the narrative Rob (24:15) if it David (24:15) for him forever, Rob (24:16) If it diverges from the story, then, you've got two choices. you change your story, well three, change your story, make your story grow to surround whatever new information, or you claim that it's false information, so your story doesn't have to change. this is something that you will never probably hear me utter again. But In defense of JD Vance. this is gonna be rare, rare for me. in defense of fellow David (24:44) Drink. Drink everyone. Drink. Rob (24:45) fell yeah, defense of JD Vance. I am not at all surprised, and actually I'm a little impressed with his ability to be shameless in the way that he's refusing to reference. Iran as a war, even though the rest of us sort of intuitively identify it as a war. if it has a mane and a tail and four hooves, it's probably a horse. Occasionally I suppose it could be a zebra, but we know how that one Amit (25:14) Yeah. Rob (25:14) goes. this is not the first administration to do this. every administration tries to capture the narrative and control the narrative. and they pay people to do this. and the idea is really it's about schema. So we all have the ways we see the world, these organized mental structures that help us kind of construct an image of what the world is. And once you say the word war, There's a whole package that comes with war. there's enemy and loyalty and victory and sacrifice and command and urgency and all the things that we associate with war. And, when I said war in that dramatic way that I just said it, for the tens of people who are listening to us, my guess is that they unwittingly, unknowingly, now that I'm pointing it out, they might be able to look back, had all those things sort of swirl in their head because it activated a schema. So they are desperately trying not to activate that schema because there's a lot of things that come with it for the general population. And they don't want to do that. Additionally, they don't want to they don't want to Amit (26:20) I think it's very context dependent. Rob (26:22) go to Congress and ask Congress to actually approve a war. that's That's another one. That's administrative though. Amit (26:27) I think it's very contextual, Rob, So you're right. So saying that it's not a war has purposes, serves a purpose, kind of minimizes it to some degree, it's not a big threat. It also takes away from having to have clear objectives that you can say, hey, we have met, So can you say we're winning the war? Mm, Iran's keeps on doing stuff that shows that they still have a lot of control over what's going on i economy wise and so forth, So there's a lot of facts that can contradict the narrative of for winning the war. So it makes sense in that sense to say, it's not a war. But then at the same time, we have the department of war, The DOD has turned into a DOW. Officially slash unofficially, Because there hasn't been any congressional action on that, and then with war, you do get very specific objectives, You have an enemy, you have things you can say we're doing, you can rally people behind policies and say this is necessary because this is a war and we have an enemy and they're bad and this is why they're bad, for example, I think in fact Donald J. Trump raised this narrative about saying this is a war with Iran because we want to prevent Iran from getting weapons of mass destruction, We don't want them to have nuclear weapons. And relating that back to nine eleven, And we all know that WMD was a big big issue at that point, and there was never any evidence of that really being the case for Iraq. But so anyway, so No, there's a lot going on there, a lot to unpack and really our politicians are trying to simplify that, but depending on the audience, you can go either way. Not a war, and yes, definitely a war and it's really Rob (27:55) And we've done it the opposite direction. That, historically when we wanted to put energy into something, we start wars. In other words, the war on drugs, or the war on poverty. it's mobilizing that schema towards something else to, direct the energy to convey to people that we are really taking this seriously. David (28:15) Well that's what's really fascinating about the way this administration is going about this moment of time is that you have this desperate attempt before the midterms to say, this thing that's clearly driving up the cost of fuel. I think diesel just hit six dollars a gallon. we're not quite to the seven Rob (28:35) Yeah. David (28:35) dollars you talked about before you predicted, Rob, but maybe we'll get there. Fingers Rob (28:39) I know, I know. David (28:41) crossed, but we can only hope. ec yeah. Economically Rob (28:42) I mean I don't wanna be wrong. I don't wanna be wrong. Of course not. David (28:47) and so economically this is a fucking nightmare. not to mention just the fact that Donald Trump ran as the no more forever foreign wars candidate. To then turn around and start a war that he said was only gonna last five weeks, and here we are seven months into it. Amit (29:06) six seven. David (29:07) And here we are, six, seven. Rob (29:09) Except. David (29:10) you could tell you deal with a lot of kids. Amit (29:11) Mm. Rob (29:12) No doubt. David (29:12) mostly young men. so here we are approaching this, with no end in sight, because there was no strategy to this conflict. there appeared to be the assumption that. they would just roll over and let us do whatever. Amit (29:24) Yeah. David (29:26) Turns out they actually have pride in their country and aren't planning on just giving up. So they're trying to say, no, there's not a war there, while simultaneously changing the name, albeit more of an authorization of a secondary title, than a true change, but the Department of War instead of the Department of Defense, because why? Because we want to communicate more strength, that we're ready to fight rather than defense, but we're not in a war. I don't know that all of our tens of listeners, or maybe they did, but anybody Who looks at the news as much as I did, noticed that last week our favorite guy, the war hero himself, the man who can smell war from miles away. he wakes up, he smells it, he just senses it, he lives war. Mark Wayne Mullen, the Rob (30:13) Mark Wayne Mullen. Yeah. David (30:15) Mark Wayne Mullen, the man, the myth, the legend. In his own mind, maybe, but all those things, all those Rob (30:19) Non war. Yeah. David (30:20) things either way. But the war-attuned man has simultaneously, while they're trying to reframe the current foreign war that we're in as not a war, changing the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War is now saying that the Department of Homeland Security is at war every single day. And he changed the seal so that the eagle that's on its head is no longer facing the olive branch, but rather facing arrows. And he did this, Rob (30:52) The arrows, yeah. David (30:53) yeah, right before the twenty fifth anniversary of nine eleven. why do they want to downplay these foreign wars whilst amplifying this message of some kind of domestic war on all these things that he's talking about immigration, customs, things like that. Rob (31:12) The why to it, David, I can't speak toward other than the fact that he's got a war fetish as a man who the closest thing to war he got is having to use a plunger on a stopped up toilet, given his background. But David (31:24) I imagine he knows what going to war smells like if he is with his background Rob (31:28) What's my David (31:30) is a plumber. He knows what he knows yes, he does. He knows that and that might be why he said you could smell war because Rob (31:31) in the plumbing w world. w what David (31:37) in his line of work you can really smell it when the shit hits the floor. Rob (31:40) what I can say, even though I can't speak toward his motivation other than maybe self-aggrandizement, or again, trying to mobilize a certain schema to get support, because if they're at war, well we gotta support is something that we've talked about multiple times, which is just a utter lack of coherence. across the board. And, prior to this, I've been frustrated about it. We've talked about some of the maybe the forces that are driving the lack of coherence because really the only coherence is that we have a president who's into self aggrandizement and he tends to appoint people Who interestingly have a similar personality structure and are into self-aggrandizement. So that's the only coherence I can come up with. But as we're talking, I'm actually now wondering if the incoherence is actually part of their superpower in that that floor, that hardcore die hard folks. the lack of Coherence forces them to actually ignore pretty much everything that's going on so that they can stick to the story that they've already committed to. And anything less would require managing the dissonance of All this is just too much. So it's so much easier for that roughly thirty three percent, which seems to be the hard floor. it's too much for them to do, to bear. David (33:11) there is something shockingly coherent about the lack of coherence. And to me, maybe this shouldn't be, maybe this is getting into conspiracy theory compared to I suppose, but when you know how damaging it is To have this domestic war economically. So trying to separate yourself from the idea of having anything to do. Well, no, that's not a war. This isn't a war. Look the other way. But let's look at the things that people do support, which is a domestic war on the problems that you might actually see. And it makes a lot of sense, actually, because other than paying more at the pump, what effect has the Iran war had on the vast majority of Americans? if you're not on one of the ships, if you're not one of the eighteen people, God rest those souls who died from America, if you're not one of the, hundreds of people who've been injured, you're really one of the millions upon millions, hundreds of millions of people who are just here in the US living life as you typically would, just more expensive. And so what's their real ace in the hole? Well it's looking at the things that people seem to care about. Crime, cartels, cyber threats. Border terrorism, all real problems, but rather than talking about those things, because you do kind of put yourself in a disadvantage if you start whining endlessly about problems that you said you were gonna fix, and now it is nearly two years into your term. So you can't really whine directly about those things, but what you can do is say, Well, we're fighting a war to save you from all of these problems. And I do see it that Rob (34:57) He here's David (34:58) way. That's a story. Rob (34:59) It is. And here's a frustration, I guess, of mine. is that, those of us who spent a lot of time in uniform, we know that war is not a synonym for shit we take serious. that from a military planning standpoint, when we talk about war or think about war, we're thinking about political objectives. We're thinking about a desired end state. we're thinking about what our resources are and what costs are acceptable. There's a discipline to war. And if everything's a war, you can end up with all the kind of wartime permissions, permission structures that come with that, the winning at all costs. without any kind of wartime termination criteria. we've been fighting a war on drugs for like 45 years. And it's one of the only areas in which every year we actually invest more money into it and actually have losses every year. So the drug use actually tends to increase with time. And we invest more money with it. So there is no in state because we're really not approaching it like a war, like what is really required, the discipline that's required if you're waging Amit (36:09) Yeah. Rob (36:09) a war. Yeah. Another great one if you're interested in the drug war is chasing the scream. So everyone drank, here's another book. but chasing the scream is an excellent depiction of really what the cost Amit (36:20) Yeah. Rob (36:22) of a war that's not a war, that doesn't have any of the discipline of a war or any of the termination criteria of a war, but we call it a war. Amit (36:31) Right, David, I'd noticed you moved on to a different bottle. Can you tell us about that one? David (36:34) Yeah, I didn't talk about blade and bow, which I had some. Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. it was okay, it was good. I had that. I don't know what the mash bill is. the reason that I got it was because there's a key. They give you a little key with it. Does the key do anything? No, it's just a shtick. But finally I'm landing on the tried and true Woodford Reserve Double Oaked, which I'm gonna savor, but this one is always a delight. it just it smells like heaven. Amit (37:01) you made it to your third glass. Rob (37:03) it does. David (37:03) Yeah, that's a good one. that's so good. That's so good. man. This one is so complex and nice. Rob (37:09) Yeah. David (37:09) the other bourbons, they taste like bourbon. But you get that Woodford Reserve double oaked and it's Amit (37:15) It's a party. David (37:16) it almost has a toffee flavor to it I would say. it's so good. It's just so damn good. this one is like a candy bar. Rob (37:22) Right. Now, here's the interesting thing. For a non bourbon drinker, you describe a tasting of toffee, they go drink it. Toffee's not what they're gonna get. They're gonna get gasoline is what but I know exactly what David (37:34) it's Rob (37:34) you mean. it is a complex flavor set for a bourbon, which is one of the nice things about bourbon. bourbon has David (37:39) Just Rob (37:40) a much more complex flavor set than say a scotch. Scotch is an incredibly clean flavor. If you like it, fantastic. If you don't like it, well it's clean. Amit (37:50) Try something else. David (37:51) Yeah. Rob (37:52) Yeah. David (37:52) Yeah, absolutely. right. gentlemen, the last thing we should really talk about was the Dallas midterm convention. it's interesting because it throws a bit of a wrench into what we've been talking about to this point. Which was the idea that the administration has been running from talking about the war as a war, which has been consistent with JD Vance. and this speaks more to what you always point out, Robbie, is that the incoherence of this administration doesn't actually seem to come from those surrounding Donald Jellybean Trump. It comes from the man, the myth. The legend himself, Donald Trump. And so during the convention, he can't help himself but stray from the narrative that the rest of his administration has been so artfully crafting to this point this isn't a war. We're not in a war. There's no war. What war? War? who said anything about war? All is well. It's been just nothing but a day of peace and love and joy. And then insert Donald Jumbalaya Trump and he can't fucking help himself but talk about the goddamn war as a war. Rob (39:08) huh. David (39:08) You know people are sitting in that back room going, what? we tried so hard. the guy Rob (39:16) no what they did was smack themselves in the forehead and went, He did it again. He did it again. David (39:22) He can't I I've said this before. Amit (39:23) Listen, he's talking to his inner circle. David (39:26) I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You can count on Donald Trump to do a lot. if you expect him not to do his own fucking thing, you're just kidding yourself. So go ahead, come up with whatever narrative you want. The second that he gets on that microphone. And he doesn't have a prompter in his face telling him what to say, just gonna spew out whatever he thinks in that moment. And so guess what? It's a war again. And it's a necessary war. Rob (39:55) Well, I have decided that I'm voting Republican for five thousand dollars. I'm doing it. Give me my five thousand dollars. I'm still I'm still waiting on my David (40:06) Do you think that's gonna work? I I worry about I wonder. Amit (40:06) Was there? Rob (40:09) my dividends from the tariffs. that check's supposed to be two thousand bucks. It's coming. I know it's in the mail. Amit (40:14) One day. Rob (40:15) Yeah, I know it's in the mail. David (40:15) I I'm still waiting on no foreign wars. I'm still waiting on improved economy. Rob (40:19) Ha ha David (40:20) I'm sure people will vote for him because he promised five thousand dollars. I'm sure people won't ask the question. actually I know that the question was asked of him. I think it was Laura Ingram even asked him, why not just give people five thousand dollars now if you have the money? Okay. Five thousand dollars and more Trump. Yeah, let's do it. Why not? Amit (40:40) he also think after the speech with this is a war and we're gonna win, Jazzing people up, I think his next point was pretend I'm on the ballot and vote Republican because that's what his fans will do. David (40:53) Yeah, I think the Amit (40:53) Get more votes. David (40:54) big fear at this point for the Republican side isn't so much that Republicans won't vote for him I or MAGA won't vote for him. I think the fear is that Maggie just won't show up to vote because it's a midterms and people don't show up for that. But I would love to see a non hapless Congress. I would just like to see Congress do Rob (41:08) At least has some guardrails. Yeah, it has some guardway. David (41:12) their fucking job. Rob (41:13) Would too. it'd be reassuring. it would give me hope in the human condition. Although we learned this week that there is a non zero chance that AI is going to destroy humanity within the next ten years. So Maybe it's all for naught, Amit (41:27) Yeah, that's fair. Rob (41:28) folks. Amit (41:29) That's fair. David (41:29) I was thinking it would be great to have Trump or one of his acolytes in charge during a time that we face an existential crisis as a nation because those guys are full of ideas, really good ideas, great ideas. They have concepts of plans that you haven't even Amit (41:43) You know, I think so another Rob (41:44) The best ideas. The best. David (41:47) thought about. Amit (41:47) another great idea. I don't Rob (41:48) They're huge. Amit (41:49) know if you guys are familiar with the military's Gen AI initiative where they take commercial, AI systems and compile them together. Trump should rename it, rebrand it to Skynet because it's cool. Rob (42:00) Well, if we get David (42:01) Well Rob (42:01) Terminator on TNT at the right time David (42:05) I agree yeah. You read my mind. Amit (42:06) So David (42:07) That was exactly what I was gonna say, yeah. We consider changing Gen Rob (42:09) So we know how to we know how to David (42:12) AI to Skynet, yeah. Amit (42:13) Yeah. Rob (42:14) We know how to accomplish this. We just need to put it into place. We just need to make it practice. Yeah. Amit (42:17) Right. Every week we gotta have that plan. Rob (42:20) yeah. David (42:20) So, all right, so we have spent an inordinate amount of time, beating up on Donald Jiffy Lube Trump and this administration of we'll just call it the clown show. We'll just call it the circus that exists around him. is it unfair to just argue that What's happening right now as far as reframing the war to not be a war, changing the name of the Department of Defense, or at least I guess temporarily authorizing a secondary name, the Department of War, reframing what DHS does as a war. isn't this just politics? Amit (42:57) Sure. Rob (42:57) I don't think so. I'm gonna disagree with both of you on this one. because I think it's driven more by personality than politics. That the political move is actually not to do so many of those things. if you are really trying to play to the middle, trying to get the swing voters, trying to really be a politician. you wouldn't do any of this stuff because it loses a great swathes of people. There's so many people that just roll their eyes at Pete Heg Seth's Department of War. but it is driven more by his personality. Amit (43:35) I think personality's there, but no one said it's good politics. I think the intention is Rob (43:40) Okay, all right, all right, all right, you got me. Amit (43:44) Yeah. Rob (43:45) You got me. it could just be incom David (43:45) I guess so Rob (43:47) it could be just incompetent politics. You're right, you're right. A rose by any other name, David (43:50) No, I you know what, though Rob (43:51) my friends. David (43:52) The only thing though I would challenge there is this is good or bad politics, does it work? And for the target demographic, it does. Amit (44:04) I think it does. David (44:05) It does. So I agree that it is a political game. I also agree that it's maybe not great politics, but I would still argue that it fucking works. It works. It works for all Rob (44:18) Okay. David (44:18) the reasons that you started out with, which is that people want a reason to continue the narrative. that they've already built Amit (44:26) Part of it also is that Dave that it shows that you did something. If you can't do much substantive, being able to say we change this thing concretely is doing something, and that somehow sends a message that we are competent or we are actually doing something, as opposed to we're not doing our job or we're bad at our job. So sends a message. Rob (44:46) A visible one. one of the challenges, being a president is of the godzillion million things that you may or may not do, it's gaining the attention of the populace. And one thing that this administration is really good at is gaining the attention of the populace with these dramatic things. and it does convey some sense that. that there's at least motion, something's happening. versus administrations that are quieter, calmer, it's so much better for my blood pressure. I would love a nice quiet, calm presidency that I didn't know what the fuck they were doing. I would love that. If I was in a position to not know what the fuck they were doing, that would thrill me. And I would probably live another decade because I'm sure this is shaven just every damn day, a month of my life gets shaved off. I'm certain of it. Fact check me, folks. Amit (45:39) Yeah. David (45:40) well. Rob (45:40) Get it up on the website. predicting early demise for himself. probably Amit (45:44) Let's do some blood work. Rob (45:45) probably gonna make it into the AI Armageddon, though. probably. but it does give some sense of motion that probably does work to a level. David (45:55) what I find fascinating is the ability to find these wins in situations that there's probably not really a win. So one of the things that gets highlighted often is well, look, Donald Trump, he gives all his time to the media. And that is true. There's some nuance to this though. Because he does stand there in front of the gaggle of press. He loves to do that. and he does that much more than Biden did, and he does that much more than Obama did. however, comma, when he does that, it gives him a tremendous amount of power in that room where he can still control the narrative that exists. Where he's calling on somebody, they don't have a microphone in front of them, you can't really hear what they're saying. He can answer the question however he wants. And the rest of that room right now, they're not protecting each other the way that they used to. So if a president would have said something asinine in the past, or refused to answer the question that was being asked, a second reporter would then follow up with, Well, what about? or Wait a minute, what you just said was complete utter fucking nonsense. But it isn't a disadvantage to him to do that because it actually puts him into a more powerful position. it's not like he's giving one on one interviews with hard-hitting reporters who are going to ask him tough questions. He's doing that occasionally, but he's doing that only with reporters that he feels friendly with. Even when you look back, he did an interview with Jonathan Swan in twenty eighteen. And the guy just, he'll admit, he just nerfed that interview. He just fucked it up so bad. He got himself more prepared, had a second interview in 2020, at what point he then actually called Trump out on some of the bullshit that he was saying. And so yes, in what you're saying, they're giving evidence of doing something, which is true. There is motion. The question that we all have to ask ourselves is is that a good thing, though? Yes, they're doing something, but are we moving in a direction that we want to move in? Because Amit (47:59) Well, that's a key question. David (48:00) Yeah, yeah. you could be sitting on a boat and say, Well, the last guy that was in charge, the boat wasn't even on the water. Well, at least this one's moving. So that's great. Except that this one is moving towards a waterfall. So the guy that took over, popped us back into the water, did it twenty feet from a waterfall. Maybe as it turned out, the guy that had us sitting on the side of the river had us there because he knew there was a fucking waterfall over there. Rob (48:26) Well, there you go with your analogies again. thank you for that. Everyone should drink. but also you got dangerously close to the it's not the size of a ship, it's the motion of the ocean. Amit (48:37) Ha ha. David (48:38) That too. Amit (48:38) I couldn't Rob (48:38) I feel like Amit (48:38) you know. Rob (48:39) I feel like you've used that in your life. I feel like that's something that's come up. Or didn't come up, maybe. David (48:45) Every Saturday, every no, on Saturdays I use that. That's our special that's my special time. Amit (48:47) Every Saturday. David (48:50) Don't worry about the context. worry about the context. Rob (48:50) my special day. David. Amit (48:53) It's a good tool to have in your belt. Rob (48:55) It is. David (48:55) Gotta use one of the tools there. All right. gentlemen, this has been delightful, but do we have any prescriptions? Rob (49:02) I got one always. all right. Given the possibilities here, however I'm going to admit this is not scientifically proven that presidential policy occasionally correlates suspiciously with recent cinematic content. I'm going to make a prescription that Turner Classic movies effective immediately. Begins a continuous rotation of all the president's men, Nixon, the final days, Dick, and Dave. Amit (49:32) Ha. Rob (49:33) W I'm not saying television controls Amit (49:34) Can you just quit it? Rob (49:36) I'm not saying television necessarily controls presidential behaviors, obviously. I'm simply proposing a prospective trial, randomized if we can do it, double blind seems kind of fucking difficult. but TMC, this is your internal review board application right now. See where it goes. Amit (49:55) I'm gonna add some twelve angry men in there just for, something different. Rob (49:58) Yeah. Amit (49:59) Civic duty. David (50:00) I mean, you got one. Amit (50:01) No, that's pretty good. honestly, we've talked a lot about fact checking, error checking. if we can certainly take what we're hearing with a grain of salt, that will create wonders in us being able to actually take in more actionable information. So, guys don't believe everything you hear. David (50:19) Alright. I'm gonna prescribe a mandatory seventy two hour waiting period on all federal renaming. So before changing the name of a lake, Department, State, Gulf, War, Military Operation, or apparently the direction an Eagle is looking, you have to submit one page answering what changed besides the noun. If the answer is nothing, then prior authorization denied. You may not. Amit (50:45) So does that mean you cannot change the name of this to Shrink America for another seventy two hours? David (50:50) No, we're definitely Shrink America. Today we shrink America. Anyway. thank you. Thank you so much to Amit for hanging out with us today. Hopefully we'll get more of you later. if anybody doesn't remember Amit from our earlier episodes, please go back and listen to him. But also, Amit is a key member of Shrink Team Six, which is in actually all of our video games. If you go to our website, shrinkthenation.com, check out our arcade. We have myself, Robbie and Amit in all of our games, super fun. Play them still better than the White House dot gov arcade. I do believe they decided to pull their Tetris game after getting some negative feedback from the makers of Tetris and Anyway, but yeah, otherwise, thank you so much. Amit (51:34) I did see what you did there, Dave. I noticed you were able to use the word key as in your bourbon key in that sentence. So well done. David (51:42) Yes, totally intentional and not a drunken mistake. Not at all. Rob (51:46) You don't make those. David (51:46) Alright folks, no, I never do. I'm perfect. Alright, hit like, subscribe, share with your friends. Let's get us from tens to hundreds of people if we can at all possible. Thank you so much. Rob (51:57) Be nice. David (51:58) I'm gonna cue up this music and we are