When the Joke Is the Test

David (00:00) a very specific kind of joke that's not really trying to be funny. It's testing the room. You say the ugly thing, rapid and irony, wait to see you laugh, and if anyone objects, suddenly they're the problem. Too sensitive, too centorious, unable to take a joke. That's how taboo ideas get cleaned up for public use. Not all at once, not with a speech, usually with a meme, a group chat, and a bunch of people pretending they don't know exactly what's happening. So this one is about jokes, Nazis, laundering bad ideas, and why some laundry really does need to be done in public. This is Strengthenation. Let's go. David (01:18) Alright, hey, as always, I'm David. if you've listened to us before, know who I am, you know what I do. Tonight, I am enjoying Robbie. This Montana 1889. And it was crafted in the great city of Bozeman, Montana, as Sheldon Cooper would call it, by the Bozites. You know, the first of this was, I'm not going to lie, was kind of I am drinking it on the rocks. I think as the ice kind of melts, flavor profile is becoming a little bit more palatable. starting to enjoy it, actually, as one does all bourbon. I think it confirms what you've said before, which is Rob (01:40) Mm-hmm. I have. David (01:57) Bourbon is bourbon. It'll pretty much taste the same. Now this is, it's getting better. Rob (01:58) Yeah. Well, first sip's always like gasoline. So, you know, triggers every nerve ending in your tongue to fire at once and takes a little bit. And then of course that ice melting's helping to mitigate some of the hate. It makes a So David (02:16) Which is I think we need to be doing tonight. I think that's that's kind of the role. We're going to play the role of ice melted ice in this cesspool of the bourbon that what our culture is Rob (02:18) Yeah, it's a metagame. Rob. It's Rob. psychiatrist, board certified, and have some military experience. I'm here this evening in honor of the director of the FBI drinking Woodford Reserve. Yeah. I'm hesitant David (02:42) me about that. Rob (02:43) to say his actual name seems to hold grudges and has the power of the FBI. apparently he's got a touch of a drinking problem. Or maybe it's just a responsibility problem, not necessarily the drinking part. And he seems to have a particularly love of giving special bottles of Woodford Reserve in which he signs signs the bottles and gives them away, which. David (03:06) No, he gets, he actually gets his name, FBI seal and director etched into the bottles as well. So he gets him apparently this is now the bottles are floating around all over the place. So I don't, you know, but Rob (03:10) Yeah. Yeah. Right. You know, and alcohol is one of those adult gifts that you can give. You don't really have to think about it. So, you know, someone's retiring and give them a bottle of bourbon or you're going to a party. You can bring a bottle of wine. You don't have to ponder it. I have found that those who give the most booze are the ones who really, Correlation's not causation. I'm just drawing some correlations here. David (03:47) I will say that this bottle that I have is a gift because I've never been to Bozeman. And since imagine it is, it's a beautiful ever since we started doing the show, don't know what to get me anyway for gifts. So they always end up getting me bourbon. And got envious Rob (03:52) I have, a lovely city. Yeah, it is. Yep. Yeah. David (04:05) bourbon selection now cabinet. There's got to be 20 bottles up there. Yeah, mean, you drunk and some not, lots of I think big deal though about the director of the FBI giving out bottles of booze is that since Rob (04:10) my gosh. David (04:26) Edgar Hoover, I don't think the FBI director has given gifts like that. And I believe Hoover would give cards with his name on But this is taking that to a whole new level. well this particular likes to self promote and he loves merch. He loves the merch, man. The swag is what he's all about. and especially named brand is stuff. So he puts his name on everything. it's an interesting gift to be given by the director of the FBI considering that, it's, strictly forbidden to have any alcohol in your system on the job So it's just one of those things. Rob (04:45) He does. Well, it's one of those jobs no such thing as downtime. There's no off time. You may not be necessarily on the job, what's the bar? Are Frankwoods in Vegas? poodle room. David (05:14) I mean, that sounds like a place that any good, well-respecting FBI director would spend time in, the Puddle Room. Rob (05:21) Yeah, so Atlantic is the one that alleged this and he's in his response He was you know Objectively aggressive about it, but at any rate the Atlantic he's now suing them for Don't know billion dollars 250 all right 250 million it's all Magic money, David (05:35) $250 million, 250 million. The Atlantic and the writer, yeah. and and then the Rob (05:41) allege in this article that he has been observed drinking very heavily at a place called Ned's in Washington, DC, and then also the Poodle Room in Las Vegas. It doesn't feel like the Poodle Room would be a place that we'd expect to any of the prior directors of the FBI. David (06:01) think probably the most appropriate place for the director of the FBI to be drinking would be in his garage whilst doing a podcast with his buddy. Yeah, maybe not in public. Rob (06:08) Probably that that would bet we could at least identify behind that but anyway, so that'd be awesome I do have a suggestion though. I say you and I meet at the poodle room and do from the poodle room? David (06:15) I could. If he wants to come on, we'll gladly talk with him. I don't know if I can handle the poodle room. I don't know what it is to be honest, but I'm not sure. Rob (06:28) and drink. Woodford Reserve. And speaking of Woodford Reserve, you know, it's one of those, I'm not gonna call it a high-end bourbon. Of course they have, you know, they're special ones that are higher end. I find it to be Its flavor profile is relatively clean for those who drink bourbon. One of the cool things about bourbon is that it's got kind of a dirty flavor profile. In other words, it's lots of different flavors that are mixed in. with Woodford, a remarkably clean profile, almost approaching, at least in my mind, Scotch having a very clean flavor profile, except for the smokiness. At any rate, I don't don't like it. me, much anything else to include old crow. David (07:18) Really, I mean, I've had enough wood for reserve. Just, think they give you those little bottles on planes what I'll Rob (07:24) I think that's called buying them. David (07:25) Okay, well buying, yeah, the little bottles, it's true. So I've, you know, I used to fly quite a you know, I get three or four of these things because, you know, with an upgrade to see whatever they give you several of them. I used to just have them in my backpack. didn't really, I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've probably security with, you know, a couple of bottles of that. They never stopped me. it was, you know. Rob (07:46) No, I had the blessing of the FBI director. so that's what I'm drinking this evening. Running on too few hours of sleep as well. So if I get sloppy, I apologize in advance. David (07:49) Yeah, to have on You look like you're running off, Janice. Luckily for you, I think our topic is gonna be... Rob (08:03) It's just my face. It's just my face. David (08:05) this is why we don't have video because good God. You got a Facebook radio, my friend. Rob (08:05) Yeah. I do, I do, that's the truth. I've very punchable. David (08:12) chest. You're beautiful, do want you though to strap on your boots today, Robbie, gonna stomp some Nazis. my segue been a couple of times now, reason I bring this up at all is because it's happened more than really, since going back to 2016, it's really been escalating, but there another group chat of young Republicans, I of the Florida State University, if I'm not mistaken, I apologize if it's one of the Florida universities, where their group chat came to light and they were sympathetic and it came out and as has kind of happened in the past a lot of that's been just sort of brushed off as well. They were just jokes occurred to me that There's a pattern that we're sort of seeing whenever that occurs where It'll be it's just a joke. They're just saying stuff and then as people become offended by joke, and say, well, that shouldn't really be said, like, you shouldn't be saying that, then it gets flipped into this complaint that the people who are objecting are now trying to censor the people who are making these turns the It takes the saying, I don't think it's right to... Talk about Nazi shit, especially if you're gonna be trying to be in a leadership role to why are you trying to censor people and now that person is being attacked as trying to censor. So what's happening there? Rob (09:34) Well, let's first start with just conceptually why a thing becomes taboo to a society. So societies tend to create taboos in order to not eliminate the concept. You can't eliminate a concept once it's entered into the universe, but it is basically to hide that concept from their own self-image. a Jungian stance, we've talked about the shadow, but it's forcing a concept into that shadow and hiding it from ourselves so thoroughly. it becomes verboten even speak of it. There's a reason for that. I mean, there are some things really shouldn't be joked about. There's some things that shouldn't be considered and some things that shouldn't be done. I'm gonna go out on a limb and probably say, know, Nazism. I think that firmly deserves to be made taboo. The interesting thing is though, and you know, this is... Chumming the waters is really what it reminds me of. you know, this is the equivalent of there's always that guy and it's almost always a guy. Although I have seen this on the other side, but there's always that guy to turn everything into sexual innuendo. you know, ultimately what they're doing is taking something that is taboo. They're trying to wrap humor around it, throw it out into universe, out into the group context, and see if it's accepted or then go from there. it's bad form, regardless, but in this case, terminology out there ends up being a way that they can bring up those topics, Hitler, Nazism, racism. if it's accepted, then they've made their point. And if it is denied or if it is fought against, they can either deny it or they can flip it around, as you just said, and said, we're adults. Having an adult conversation, don't censor. David (11:32) Yeah. Well, starting off by in, in really, think wrapping it in a joke kind of gives you that protection of, well, if you don't like it, it's just a joke. But if everybody laughs, then you know that there's some level of acceptance to it. And in these group chats, what you're kind of seeing with them is starts out like that. And then it starts to become this almost one-upsmanship where people are now contributing. pretty freely to the point that it becomes loyalty tests. with us, you're gonna say these things as the point that just becomes very much accepted. response has been once this stuff comes to been, well, they're just young people telling jokes. be a member of the young Republicans, you just have to be under 40. So it's not that all these people are These are 12 year olds telling these jokes. You just don't know. are adults. These are grown adults who know very much what they're saying. but you're right. It is chumming the water. It's testing, Hey, is this a protected space is everyone else going to agree with it or not? And then still leaving that sort of plausible deniability of, Hey, it was just a joke. Why are you guys pearl clutching at this point. are you getting upset about just some kids, some knuckleheads making jokes to the point that again, yeah, you can argue that now there's censorship going on. Rob (12:43) Well, you know, this is reminding me of something. It's funny how terminology just sort of enters into the lexicon in a surprising way, at least to me. So lately, it seems like I cannot watch anything, any kind of news related show without somebody making mention of the Overton window. it just keeps popping up. And once you hear it, I promise you tomorrow, you'll hear it again. You'll hear it on some news channel. You'll hear some pundit talking about the Overton window. You'll hear it on a podcast. But the Overton window apparently is not a new concept, even though it was not a concept that I knew. It's a concept in political science that describes the range of policies or ideas that are considered acceptable. in public discourse. at least in political science, the theory is that over time, this window shifts from things that are just unacceptable to even ponder. But if they are brought into public discourse enough, they will be rejected and rejected and rejected. But that is subtly shifting. And before you know it, It's well within the window of something we can talk about. And that's kind of what I'm seeing in this is that my sense, my guess is that for a majority of these individuals that get sucked into these conversations, it is peer pressure, it is group think. Do they truly espouse Nazi beliefs? I don't think so. But one or two of them do. Some of them do. And once you dump out even you you say Hitler enough times you end up desensitizing the group the Overton window for the group shifts. And now all of a sudden it is acceptable to say Hitler, talk about Hitler. And then before you know it, say, you know, he did have some good policies, which is ridiculous out its face, but that seems to be what's happening. group dynamics would predict this, groups tend to search for cohesion. And if someone is throwing these terms, shifting what's considered appropriate, and then you used a great term, the which is basically taking a taboo, throwing it in there, by simply putting it in, wrapping it in humor, making it a joke, whatever, it ends up cleaning it up to the point where next thing you know, it's no longer taboo, talking about. David (15:19) Yeah. I'm at with this now is, okay, so we understand what's happening. see the process and we're seeing it happen multiple times. It's happening over and over. But it's happening on a much grander scale than what we're typically used to seeing. And so the big question I have is why? Why are we seeing that now? Why weren't we seeing that as much because these topics, these aren't new. It's these, this isn't the first group of people to be talking about Hitler. what's different about it is that these are, people who are aspiring to be the next leaders within the GOP, what's different. This is a much more mainstream adjacent group than what we would typically see. And then when you get JD Vance coming in and then making those excuse arguments of, they're just kids. You're just, they're just joking. That's very, very different than a bunch of neo-Nazis sitting in a bar in the middle of nowhere with their little militia. Right? That's, this is totally different. So why are we seeing this now? Rob (16:22) at this moment in time. David (16:23) it's been happening more and more since 2016, but it's starting to escalate to the point where again, these young aspiring leaders, mean, when you're in your late not too far off from next JD Vance, is the group who's doing it bunch of bikers and skinheads. is something totally different, Robbie. And why is it happening now? Rob (16:45) gosh, David, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say a couple, yeah. David (16:50) another one. A new limb. getting off not okay with Nazism limb. And you're crawling out to a different one. Okay, we got it. New limb, new limb I wonder if this one will be as strong as the other one. Rob (16:56) Right, right. Yeah, I realize, I realize I really, braving new ground here, saying, you know, hey, in the argument of for or against, I'm against, I'm just... David (17:09) everybody, I'm gonna go out and I'm just gonna let y'all know, as brave as I am, that I am not for or rape. I'm against both. I'm against both, guys. I am not a fan. I do not like disagree. down, yeah, thumbs down. Mm-hmm. Rob (17:16) I'm or right, I'm, judge, me as you will, I'm just, you know, taking a personal courage right here, a moral stance. Someone needed to take someone needed to take a stand. David (17:29) Yeah, people will remember this day the annals of history, so many just stand up against Nazism and rape. But here I am, here I am. Rob (17:39) Mm-hmm. Yeah, thanks to the courage given to me by Woodford Reserve. I'm making a stand today. So, right, right, really, really got our ethics fired up. Yeah, I mean, on its face, it's so ridiculous. But, so why? Why did this shift? David (17:45) This Mont, Montana 1889 has really braved me up. Rob (17:59) there's easy answers and then there's, I think, more complex answers. And I think the easy answer would be to lay it at the foot of the GOP leadership, that all of a probably since Obama, there were some what have been termed as dog whistles, some terminology that came into popular use that was easily deniable. didn't necessarily, scream racist, sent subliminal messaging, actually not subliminal, clearly conscious messaging that was, was And in that, well, yeah, so unprofessional, just not living up to the standards of a president in United States. David (18:29) Yeah. that son of a bitch did wear a tan How dare he? Non-presidential. Non-presidential. Rob (18:40) Yeah, very non-presidential. He also wore mom jeans that were very unsettling for many. And he's a smoker or was, I don't think he is anymore. Yeah, he smoked early on in his White House career, I believe. Had to hide it. So anyway. David (18:46) He's also a smoker. Well, he smoked at some point. Rob (18:57) One could lay it their feet and again, they shifted the Overton window as it shifts, what becomes acceptable changes. I think there's something deeper though. I think there's a bigger thing going on and I think it has to do with And I've mentioned this book so many times, The Storm Before the Calm. Mentioned it so many times, but it talks about 50 year Economic cycles that the United States has gone through from the beginning and it talks about 80 year social cycles And it just so happens that 2020 is the first time that the 80 year social cycle and the 50 year economic cycle has coincided and Historically, we always in these periods find ourselves being very challenged. The economic cycles usually are associated with some big development, some change, some fluctuation from the how we used to do it to how we're gonna have to do it moving forward. And it creates uncertainty, creates a little chaos, it creates some economic uncertainty, it changes the job markets. The social cycle on the other hand is a little different and that's just when enough generations have passed that each generation changing the norms end up changing them so significantly that it creates little bit of social chaos. And I think that actually is part of this. This 80 year cycle, if you do the math, go backwards in time, it takes us back to right around World War II. And the bar was set then. mean, they are the first ones that said, you know what, I'm not supporting Nazis. I'm not doing it. I don't know if they came out, were brave enough to come out against rape like we are. I mean, the personal courage we're showing. know, I know. David (20:41) Not everyone is. everyone is, Robbie. Rob (20:44) If only everyone was such brave warriors for Wright as we are. don't remember any great statements against Wright by the great leaders of World War II. But I do recall very clearly that they were not for Nazism. in fact, I think we had a little kerfluffle, some shenanigans that was all dedicated to stamping out said Nazi, that was a little tiff, very similar to what's happening in the Gulf right now. Just a tiff, it was just a tiff. any rate, so it is not terribly surprising to me that a social cycle that really started with that and then what flowed from that, what flowed from the, hey, we're against Nazis, David (21:08) a little ⁓ tiff. Rob (21:28) ended up actually being things like equal rights, for minorities, bringing them into the fold, giving them the ability to freaking vote, despite the fact that they had the legal right to all these things. And that flowed actually from the actions of the Nazis. And what we're now seeing is that cycle come into fruition and here we are, everything old is new again. toying with fascism, toying with Nazism as a solution. You know, and yet here's the last piece that I'm going to argue probably has something to do with that is Caucasians, US white people, males in particular, but whites. If you look at the arc of our population and the population breakdowns, majority status is not indefinite anymore. So we're threatened on a couple of levels. So I think that brings back some idea of white supremacy a la Nazism and that's probably why we're seeing it unless you have some other ideas. David (22:39) Well, the Jankos are back too and mom jeans. so things do come I don't think those are the same, but no, I mean, I agree with you. think to some extent, there is economics and the difference between the rich and the poor and those separations does play heavily into racism. Rob (22:44) They too. David (23:03) a population gets, the more racism starts to find its way into believe World War push for Nazi principles has been and we'll believe it's existed this entire time. think the difference that we're seeing now isn't so much that it just started happening again. And I don't know that you're saying that I'm just bringing that out that it's been there. the difference maybe would be more of the Overton window being shifted. to this point where people feel more comfortable saying it. And I do recall early in Donald Trump's first term, him being asked specifically to denounce these groups. And he had a lot of support from that side. I don't want to sit here because I can't. I can't sit here and say, well, Donald Trump, it's because he's racist. He's a white supremacist or anything like that. I don't know that that's true. or at least I don't know that it's true enough to say yes Donald Trump is because I don't know What I do know Donald Trump is is pro Donald Trump He is that like I know he is very Donald Trump supremacist as he has always been and I think anybody that throws their support behind him is a just aces in his eyes at least publicly like he's gonna he's not gonna say things to upset people that support him he is totally fine with saying bad things about people that don't In any defense of his would be well, they weren't gonna vote for him anyway, right? Like so who is he gonna court people who might vote for him or people who definitely aren't gonna vote for and so him being so egocentric as he is when white supremacists were coming out in droves to support him because the things he was saying were Nazi adjacent, let's say. Some of the playbook that is happening now, anti-immigration, all this, it's the same thing. You know, I think a lot of the, speeches he's given have been, I mean, they might as well be given by the Fuhrer himself, just with keywords in there to just sort of change who was being attacked. the primary difference between at that point was. there was a movement that the race was superior. I think he's just really views himself as superior and he'll say anything that's gonna get, him in power. He's gonna say anything that's gonna get people excited. these are tried and true statements. This is the, algorithm that you follow if you want to get a population to follow you. And it's, it's been working really well. I would struggle to say that he probably believes 90 % of the shit that comes out of his own mouth. I think he just says it if it works it'll just stick it, you know, it's like throwing spaghetti at the wall, whatever sticks sticks. And if it doesn't, moves on. So the, we're seeing isn't so much that leadership believes it much as the leadership just doesn't care if that's happening because as long as they have support, as long as they have the numbers to keep getting elected, who gives a shit with the people below you were saying I'm in charge. What worries me about it, Robbie isn't that what worries me is that it's the people who are trying to get in charge that are espousing these things. And that's the issue. Again, I don't see the big problem right now isn't the people in charge necessarily. they're allowing groups voices to be heard and that window to shift to where it's becoming more more appropriate. And they're making excuses for it. Rob (26:14) Thank Yeah. Well. there's another factor that is likely, was it, 2014, when all of a sudden the world changed and everyone had a supercomputer in their pocket and social media changed the world, et cetera. So I think there's also a mechanism now that didn't exist before. So if you were wanting to socialize an idea like this in the past, you would have had to say it, in a room with people that probably knew your mother. So, you you had to own you can imagine, walking into a, I don't know, PTA meeting and being like, how about that huh? And you gotta own you don't necessarily have the ability to... socialize it quite like you have now. And what they can do now is they can do the exposure they can say, look at this outrageous thing. And then they can rely or call it irony. Relax, it's just a joke, man. But by doing so, gain some repetition. So everyone's doing this, everyone's saying it. And then other people will identify the outrage and will do it just to restimulate the outrage. And then it becomes an identity thing. People like us aren't afraid to say these things. And then all of a sudden the moral reversal happens. And that's the fascinating piece is when of a sudden it's not, you know, gee, we're wrong for talking about Hitler saying Hitler was cool. actually the opposite. being oppressed. being before you know it, you've gone through this you've achieved normalization of the concept. And you've probably scared some people not standing up, not saying anything because They don't want to oppress anyone and the window now has effectively shifted You can't do that in real life If I hold a rally and talk about Hitler, you know how that's gonna go well and you know for our tens of David (28:25) Well, no, no, no, not now. It's going to go probably OK. Like, let's be honest now. Now it's it's going to be a bit. Yeah, you could probably pull it off now. I don't think you should. Rob (28:29) Right. Well, might be able to pull it off. I'm just, right, well, and I'm not, for our tens of listeners, there is no planned rallies in that regard. But in real life, holding such a rally, there is no way to really roll through that sequence of laundering a taboo, but there is on the internet. The internet, know, you can soften it with emojis. You can soften it with a funny little meme You can you know debate it at? Agnostic you can flip it around and say that you're being oppressed of over it in the real world That is not gonna work out. That's not gonna it's not gonna fly quite like that So I say the internet is the medium by which this is, you know, what's driving it lots of things What's allowing it? the internet. David (29:22) Well, and I point about the Internet, I think is correct to some extent. Part of I would I would make the argument Internet allows people find other people share these beliefs easier than you would be able to do it if you had to actually leave your mom's basement. probably the most powerful piece from the Internet isn't necessarily just the ability to launder it. It's the ability to find so many people that are going to agree with you who are also sitting in their mom's basements. I want to stress that like as hard as I possibly can that if you are pro Nazi in my mind, you are probably just sitting in the basement of your parents' house accomplishing nothing with your life because you need a life. But that's probably the thing now, I will challenge that it has become easier to do that the more extreme viewpoints do require internet to be able to like soften it and launder it. now that living in this in this administration is gonna be pretty cool with damn near anything as long as it's pro that administration. As long as it's counter to them, I think they're gonna be fine with it. is different, by the ability to get information out so quickly into such a mass group like the internet. Rob (30:41) Agreed. What do we do about it? David (30:42) So, I think what we need to do is start this anti-rape should have this anti-Nazi anti-rape movement that desperately needs a couple of brave faces like ours to lead Just a counter Rob (30:55) You know what I like about that? It's the irony of the obviousness, right? you know, we're capitalizing on that chuckles. the irony there is, yeah, And from our standpoint, yours and I, that Nazism, in all its forms is as obvious as rape. It's obvious. There's not even a point to debate here. David (31:15) Yeah. Well, no, not at all. think that's thing isn't just it isn't just that irony of saying am anti Nazi and anti rape. I think what it does is it says something because I think if I were to come out and say that and start an actual movement of being anti Nazi and anti rape, I'm tying those two things together in such a way the Nazis would have to be like, whoa, we're not for rape. We're just for the Nazi part. think that's the important piece is to tie them together in such a way that they can't be separated easily. pro-Nazi, great, you're pro-rape too. Rob (31:54) You know, a certain mad genius quality to that, actually. David (31:58) is why I sit around in my garage drinking, Robbie. Rob (31:58) if Yeah, if you don't numb that brain of yours Shenanigans will ensue world gets dangerous if you don't saturate some of those GABA receptors to really just, just go easy, man, go easy. don't think in the history of mankind anyone ever thought of tying rape and Nazism together until this might be a first. I always well, I always say there is no such thing as new ideas. There are old ideas that are David (32:13) I need to. Yeah. tie them together. Rob (32:31) I think you actually have developed a new idea. mean like a legit like nobody ever thought of this before. This is new because it's so ridiculous. It's unprecedented. David (32:42) work too. will say you kind of have to Donald in my entire life, I don't think I've ever known Nazi, but man, he is allowing them to out themselves like nobody's business. And you got to appreciate that. You know, just like you said, he might be the person that actually saves democracy by exposing its weaknesses. Man, he's doing the same thing with Nazis. He's just, he's getting them to crawl out of the woodwork and identify themselves. And these are, you know, these were such taboo topics that who the fuck was going to talk about it in a public space? Well, they are now because it's safe to, I'm just saying let's not let Nazism be a safe thing. And let's tie it to rape. Let's go full-blown. I am anti-nazi and I'm anti-rape and if you were a Nazi You are pro-rape Rob (33:35) Yep. Let's make the website, baby. Let's do it. David (33:38) I'm updating it as we speak. you thought I was brave, but what I am is sick and a genius. Rob (33:39) Yep. Yeah, a mad doubt, So other than your perpetual fuckery, other than that as a plan, honestly, what really, from the bigger picture societal standpoint, what would you propose that, what's the antidote here? David (33:59) my great grandpa had a pretty good antidote for Nazism. was ⁓ D-Day. I'm not, guess I'm not kidding in some ways. Like, I think the response to Nazism is to stomp it out, is to be really clear. just not appropriate. It's not okay. That level of hatred, Rob (34:02) Yeah, 30 out 6. David (34:17) should be reserved for one group and that is about it. think being sympathetic to a cause that was solely about destroying others, not cool. Rob (34:27) Well, I agree, but we run into this first amendment thing. David (34:30) That's true. That's Yeah. Rob (34:30) And I'm not buying into, you know, Nazism. I'm not buying into, I think, groups. So a government cannot sanction speech or forbid speech. Hate speech is free speech. Groups, on the other hand, groups, individual groups, private groups, GOP, young Republicans, and, you know, truthfully, I say this, but I'll tell you, this is happening on the left too. Things like murder CEOs, rich people. That's being socialized on the left and that's a taboo that's being laundered effectively on the left. And so it's happening both sides. We're focused in on Nazis because it's funnier. Who in the hell ever thought that David (35:14) Well, no, I don't Rob (35:16) when we hit a place where, you know, Nazis, they're just funnier. David (35:20) it probably would have to do is being oppressed viewpoint. idea of people who are all for murdering CEOs, which I'm not, again, I'll come out and say I'm not for murdering really anybody. Rob (35:33) You're a brave man. David (35:34) I am anti-Nazi, am anti-rape, and I am anti-murder. So, I'm the trifecta of brave- But concepts of to take so much from somebody that they have nothing left, saw this in every major revolution, right? The French Revolution was predicated on this principle. guess it's not surprising when you have this wealth distribution happening the way that it's happening, that people are starting to get to this point where they're starting to question CEOs and people who have billions of dollars and saying well, wait a minute would what's why are they so special? I don't think again murdering people isn't the way to go because we live in a society now that you don't have to murder people to make them irrelevant and I think that's the key right like the the point Isn't to physically bring down harm to people have these taboo beliefs or who don't share your principles. it's reinventing what taboo is and how it's implemented and why. Because the idea with things that are taboo was to sort of protect society from atrocities that happen when those ideas become more than just ideas. Because that's what we saw with Nazism, the point of saying hate speech isn't really the problem. And that wasn't the issue with Nazis. It wasn't that they were espousing hatred and bad speech. It was that turned that into attempted genocide. that taboo is to tamp that down to prevent that from happening. So me, isn't necessarily about going in and beating up a bunch of Nazis. It's actually about saying, expose them for what they are and for what they're trying to do, the direction that they're trying to go. Because if you're saying that, hey, Hitler had some great ideas and he's doing okay. But what he did was, one of the most heinous committed against other humans that has ever happened masse, right? Millions and millions of people were murdered. wouldn't say beat up the Nazis. I'd say it's call them out. Call them out for what they are and don't excuse what they're saying because what we don't want is genocide. Rob (37:36) Again, stepping right out there in the realm of, I mean, your bravery has me in awe this evening. David's against genocide now too, everyone. David (37:46) I am also against genocide. well, and I count that like murder and genocide, mass murder, murder, all kinds of murder, all kinds of, all kinds of murder, all the murder, all of it, the rape, the murder, the Nazis. I'm against them all. And, you know, if you're pro Nazi, you're pro, you're pro rape and murder. Rob (37:49) Murder. on a grand scale. All the murder, all the murder put it, yeah. ⁓ I guess going back to those. so here's a problem with, here's a reason why diversity actually protects us. Diversity does tend to keep groups on the rails in this regard. can become dangerous in their ideologies. because they do share a background and a perspective. can speak toward one another as if they are not threatened. And then they can threaten other groups. So diversity actually helps us. There's a lot of reasons why diversity brings new ideas, fuller understanding of the world and of potential problems. And that might be I mean, part of the problem with these groups is that they were incredibly subsections of groups. And it really is, and this is something that the parties used to do for themselves. They used police themselves. They used to have some internal controls. the government can't do this for us. They just can't. attacking free speech. And we can't tolerate that. We cannot tolerate that. And we have to protect, governmentally at least, we've got to protect hate speech as much as we hate it. But these groups, these private groups that are non-governmental, they do have to police themselves. They do have to hold the line and have some integrity and punish those who step out. They do have to hold taboos where they belong and not allow them to be laundered and call bullshit. seeing less of a willingness to call bullshit. And in the case of the one group, JD Vance said, it's just just a bunch of kids being kids. you have pointed out, JD Vance is like 41 years old. And to be a young Republican, you have to be 40 or under. not talking kids. We're talking full-fledged the most part, men weren't just engaged in silliness that children engage in. men who were on the cusp of becoming the next leaders of the GOP. We're picking on the GOP because was directly connected to them. I'll reiterate, I think this taboo laundering is happening on the left as well. David (40:21) being able to call outliers and not allowing it to become more mainstream is sort of the key to that. It's about not allowing the laundering to occur in the first place because you're never going to get rid of French ideas. You're never going to get rid of hate speech. And as you pointed out, we don't necessarily limit speech in general, but the ability to not allow them to become mainstream by identifying how distasteful it is, is sort of the Rob (40:50) Well, that's the thing. that's maybe the part that irritates me because from a rhetorical device standpoint, I see how quickly they can flip it around and say, censoring me. This isn't about whether difficult things can be discussed. Difficult things can be discussed and they should be discussed. What we're really talking about is the costume an idea wears. And what they're doing is they're putting a costume on an idea that they know can't survive naked. putting a costume on it which allows it to get enough air shift the window of conversation. And that's what we're talking about. It's not. these concepts should never be talked about. They should. There's nothing inherently wrong about talking about difficult things. that taking them, dressing them up, because they know the idea in and of itself cannot survive. David (41:48) Well. I think we should just make shirts that say I'm anti-Nazi, anti-rape, and anti-murder, and start handing them out. if people get up, anybody who looks at those shirts and doesn't like them, well, just don't vote for put them in public office, because you probably don't want that person making decisions for you. Rob (41:55) Just, I'm putting my foot down, folks. Well, and we are talking more about like healthy discussion I'm all for it. Let's make the t-shirts, I'll wear it every day. Adults can discuss forbidden things. They do it with ownership, they do it with humility, they do it with context. Children hide behind jokes and anyone who's has kids or been around kids, you know this, they hide behind jokes and then they sue for moral injury when someone hears them. And can't be allowed. So that's where I'm putting my foot down. Nope, not gonna allow it. David (42:39) Well, there you go. Robby is for free speech, but not a fan of the Nazis. Rob (42:45) Not a fan. David (42:46) something that occurred to that necessarily along this line of thinking, but this last noticed war in Iran, told about this ceasefire, then seemingly every day, there's fighting between Rob (42:57) Ha ha ha. David (43:04) the two sides caveated by, but the ceasefire is it occurred to me, time I hear that, think about the Princess Bride and Montoya saying, don't think this word means what you think it means. Because every time Donald Trump talks. Rob (43:20) Inconceivable! David (43:24) talk about the ceasefire, thinking, don't think they know what ceasefire means. Rob (43:29) Well, every time they say the war is over and then talk about a ceasefire, I don't think they know what that word means because by definition, lack of hostility is called peace. A ceasefire is a period in which two people at war are not shooting at each except the fact that we are shooting at each other, yeah. David (43:34) Yeah. Except we're fucking shooting at each other, so... and I wondered, okay, so why do they keep using this terminology to describe the wrong thing? And what I started harking back to is how many times Donald Trump has said words and then sort of opined about their meaning and it just wasn't the right meaning. And I realized like grocery, He's talked about groceries. He said groceries. It's an old word. Nobody, nobody ever says it except. Rob (44:16) You never hear groceries anymore. Except for everybody going to the goddamn grocery store every day like I do. David (44:18) except fucking everybody every day. occurred to me is just, I think he actually speaks a different version of English than everybody else. And so you have, proper British English, right? You have like the Tories and shit like that, right? And then you have American English that you and I are used to. And so like ceasefire means that you are ceasing fire, right? Like, that, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's easy. one of the easier parts of the English language. And then I think there is Donald Trump English where the word means whatever the fuck you need it to mean in that moment. Rob (44:50) Built right in. David (45:06) again, I always ask, I always have to wonder is like, why? Why does he speak like Rob (45:11) Well, it's reminiscent to me of, and I think our tens of listeners can identify with this, remember a time you were having an argument with your significant other, any time when you're having an argument with a significant other, you get down to semantics? You've lost the fucking script. I mean, it's over. But it's like, you said, well, I did say, but I meant. And it's just, it's like hinging around a singular word. And it's silly. It's silly. David (45:40) I wish I could say it was semantics. I legit don't, I just don't know he actually knows the meaning of certain words. Like he just doesn't, like he knows the word, but he doesn't have a concept of what it means. And so like the word ceasefire, It doesn't mean to him what it means to you and I. And I think that's because nobody ever calls him out on it like his entire life. not just in the last 10 years, but I think probably his entire life, he sort of probably just said words like kids do with no concept of what it actually means. And nobody's been like, that's not what that means. Do you know what that means? And they've just never done that because they do that, you know, they would do that to your they use a word like, do you know what that word means? example, eating off of his plate said, what are you doing buddy? And he goes, I'm eating doggy style. We just about fucking died the last- And so, of course, his brother also decided that he wanted to try doggy style. So, like that. Rob (46:45) David, in good conscience make any jokes about this involving your children. David (46:50) But no, so, but that's what I'm saying. So we're sitting there trying not to, you know, just die. Because you can't explain to your children that. But what occurred to me is that at some point my sons are going to figure out that that's not what that means. It won't be from me. They're going to figure that out and they're going to be quite embarrassed. But I don't think Donald Trump ever figured out most words, like most words in English, you know, because he did. I think attended college. I just don't think he went to college. Like, I don't know that learned in college. so I just question. I think maybe Robbie and I, I don't know, I could be wrong, but I just don't know that he knows what words mean. I think they just mean whatever him. So somebody said the word ceasefire, he's just going with it. He isn't what the fucking means. doesn't care. Cause again, he's just an old fucking man. why is he going to change now? You know? It would be annoying. Could you imagine trying to correct him? How fucking irritating would that be? If you were like, dude, that's not what that means. You just give up, wouldn't you? You'd be like, all right, never mind. just, yeah, let it. Okay, you're right, Donald. Eat off your plate. Eat doggy question that. Go ahead. Have at it doggy style. Rob (47:56) And for those who are mandatory reporters in our audience, yeah, I'm sure you could probably figure out how to report on David. David (48:04) Anyway, that was terrible. Anyway, okay. Rob (48:06) That was a good one. That was a good one. That's one that you'll probably include in your dad toast at your child's wedding. David (48:15) Mm hmm. Well, my well, my children happily announced they were they were they were doing it doggy style and at the dinner table. All well, you got any prescriptions this week? Rob (48:26) You know, got and this is in keeping with, your own people. So political movements must wash their own damn laundry before accusing everyone else of smelling weird. Every tribe has a hamper. The question is not whether your side has dirty clothes. The question is whether you build a theology. around Febreze, they have to police themselves. They really do. They have to set their standards and they have to hold their members to their standards. And they can't, know, immediately when their members are not living up to whatever standards ostensibly they might believe in, they can't immediately go, but they, but they do, that's just spraying Febreze on it, man. Wash your goddamn clothes. David (49:10) I think if in the absence of the party doing its own laundry in that way, I think the people still have the ability to no. And so when this stuff comes out, I'd say don't ignore it. Right. Just pay attention and. not going to vote for that person no matter what. I don't care who's backing that person. see you, I see what you're doing. is where I think democracy needs to start getting back in the hands of the people. Just like I said last week, people need to start using their votes the way that gerrymandering has started the redistricting and all these places to try to ensure that the Republican Party stays in power. That's only if people still continue to vote the thing is, I'd don't Republican, vote for the candidates that you believe espouse the same principles that you do. sort of the key. And I'm not saying go vote Democrat. I'm saying vote for the people and everyone vote for the people that, have the morals and the principles that, you want representing you in your government. So my prescription Robbie is that everybody needs to go out and get a shirt that says I'm anti-Nazi anti-rape and anti-murder. I think if everybody started wearing shirts like that, we'd let those people who are not those things know we stand. And at the very least, they'd have to start defending one of those positions if they don't agree. And I'd love to see it. I'd love to see that. Let them call themselves out. Rob (50:32) You're starting a movement. Every movement, every movement has to start somewhere. David (50:33) I'm gonna start a movement. Starting now. I'm starting that movement now. make the damn shirts. Okay. We'll put them on our website. right, Robbie. You got anything else? Rob (50:42) I don't, I don't. I'm still just struck by what's considered controversial now. But no, no, I think yet again, yet again, we put a bullet in it. David (50:53) All right, let's do that. right, everybody, go ahead and hit like, subscribe to our podcast, share us please. Let's get some more listeners. We need to get pushed up on that algorithm, because at the very least, mean, people are listening to other crap, they might as well listen to our crap. Thank you so much. We appreciate you for listening. And that's it. So let's cue up that music and we are out.