Why Are We Even Doing This?

David (00:53) Alright, I think the music will have stopped. So welcome to the inaugural pilot recording, the first episode of Shrink the Room. I think our title is, why are we even doing this? Or our subtitle, but I'm gonna say, man, are we doing this? Are we doing this, Colonel? Alright. Rob (01:11) Yeah, feels, yeah, a touch, actually the whole process feels just a little bit narcissistic. Maybe David (01:21) Incredibly so. Rob (01:23) that fits. Yeah, we have a voice that people need to hear. David (01:27) Or at least we think they do. Rob (01:29) Exactly. David (01:30) least a voice that I want to hear. Yours, yours that is, yours. Rob (01:33) Right, right, right, right. Yep. David (01:38) So Rob (01:38) Sweet sweet sounds. David (01:40) what is this? Well, two docs, eventually three. Hopefully a moderator host of some type. Two bourbons? One big question. The hell? Rob (01:51) Yeah. David (01:53) is happening Rob (01:53) Are you drinking? David (01:54) to America's brain. And are you drinking? I am. Rob (01:58) Yeah. David (01:59) So here's our first pour. Rob (02:01) Mm-hmm. David (02:02) This is our segment. Welcome. So I'm Dave. We'll go with that. I'm a psychiatrist. I'm a tech nerd. That's who I am. That's what I do. I am former military. I do. on the the computer guy I guess that's that's my that's my shtick Rob (02:20) Mm-hmm. David (02:22) but tonight today we're doing a single barrel of four roses and Next to you. Rob (02:29) Alright, so I guess I'm either Dr. Whiskey or Rob, also a psychiatrist, 25 years-ish, with about 30 years-ish in the military. I'm not exactly a national security expert. But certainly my my 30 years has taught me to be very astute in how I watch watch the news and assess how it's going to impact me and I suppose also I have some at this point I have some forensic experience and expertise and And I'm drinking my go-to bourbon. So I have a theory about bourbon. That theory is that there is no such thing as a great bourbon. There is no reason to spend $300 or $400 on bourbon. I'm drinking Jim Beam Black Label. It's my go-to bourbon. There is no such thing as a great bourbon, but there is also no such thing as a bad bourbon. There are bourbons best drank in an alley behind a dumpster. that'd old crow. But in general, bourbon has such a restricted... David (03:50) How many times have you woken up? Rob (03:52) couple. Bourbon has such a restricted ingredient list and requirements that they all pretty much come out the same. So whether you're doing the lower end or the upper end, it's about the same. So my go-to is Jim Beam Black Label and I might expand my repertoire as we progress. David (04:12) Wow, that's a... was that blasphemous in some way? Well, kampai, cheers, whatever you want to say, yeah. Alright. We Rob (04:17) I'm sure for some people. Yeah, for some people who have invested that $300. David (04:25) lost half our audience in the first five minutes. Good job, alright. Well done, well done, Dr. Whiskey. Rob (04:27) Well, yeah, no, no, have there are there are some yeah Yeah, there are some purists who probably will disagree with me and tell me how I'm wrong Personally drank a lot of them and I find they're you know alcoholic beverages and I like bourbon prefer bourbon prefer it over anything else but do not believe there is a bourbon worthy of more than what I pay for Jim Beam Black Label. David (04:58) Well, there we go. All right. Well, cheers to you. Cheers to this new Rob (05:04) Yeah, cheers. David (05:05) venture. We'll see how it goes and we'll see if we can get anybody back after you just torched. After you just torched bourbon. So, is on the, which is in, yes. Yeah, Rob (05:14) I didn't torch it. I hold it in high regard. I hold it in high regard. It's better than, I mean... David (05:21) as you wake up behind a dumpster in the back alley. Yeah. Rob (05:23) Right, yeah, I mean, well, think of all the clear alcohols made for skinny white women, I believe. None of them touch a candle, not even close to the beauty and majesty of the American whiskey. David (05:40) That's true. All right. why, let's move on. I suppose we can move on. Rob (05:46) It's Sally Forth. David (05:50) we do the therapy before the therapy, as we're trying to call our little venture here, shrink the room, we always, we owe any good therapy. sort of starts off with that, why now? you know, you know, given, everything that's been happening, in the last, I mean, in the last six months, a lot has happened, but in reality, this has been going on for a while, right? Culture, the culture has shifted quite a bit. And so why, Why are we doing this? Why does this exist? So what are we here for? What's our goal? What do you think? Rob (06:30) it's a lot to lay on my shoulders there. David (06:32) I know. mean, my goal here is to Rob (06:34) Dave. David (06:35) come up with crazy wild conspiracy Rob (06:39) Hahaha. David (06:40) theories, you know, get loaded and Rob (06:42) Yeah, of course, of course. Dead loaded. David (06:44) hawk product that obviously won't work. No, no, of course not. Right. Rob (06:50) Yeah, Alright, so for me, honestly, as opposed to dishonestly, I suppose, I am hoping to help myself. So there's this sense that has been growing 10 years, minimum of 10 years, in which I find myself perplexed. the sense that I'm locked out, I'm not engaged, that I don't understand what's going on most of the time. I look at things and I think, this is straightforward, is, here's the path. And then the path goes somewhere other than where I think logic should take us or reason should take us. or history should take us. So I'm hoping to make sense of things for me in a bigger sense. Also, I'm hoping that this might resonate with some other folks who are feeling equally perplexed by current status situation. I don't like the fact that I've gotten to a point where I do not feel as connected to the nation's character. David (08:01) Okay, yeah, I agree. It's been, in this environment, I should say, it seems like just it's been this way for a while. It's been coming for a long time, just the loudest, most obnoxious voices. And I mean that in the nicest way possible, everybody. They just get the most attention and It's this it's just if it if you say it enough it becomes real when It isn't real right the Just repeating yourself doesn't make it more real And yet somehow gosh, it's becoming that way. and we're we're just everyone, you know everything's getting Coming out to these fringes right? Everything is off to the side and Geez, I want to live in the middle I want to live or at least what I think the middle is and Yeah, I agree it's you feel I don't know it seems like I don't know that I moved a whole lot But I definitely feel more lost and maybe it's because everyone else is kind of into their sort of tribes off to the edges and everyone who stayed in that middle zone Got left behind and so yeah, I definitely want to rediscover what that means Maybe pull some people along Help them rediscover What normal is or can be? And then anybody who's feeling really really lost or maybe they get to that point where they're feeling like This is a little bit too far on either side right on the edges That they want to kind of come back maybe they get a little bit too caught up as you kind look around and you go, wait a minute, I'm not, this isn't what I was expecting. hopefully the exhausted middle, I guess would be the way to say it, right? Maybe we can kind of help build that back up. Rob (09:53) You know, you say the exhausted middle, and that's, it's probably fundamentally it. You know, I guess I've, and I, and I'm a part of them. I'm, I'm there. Exhausted and generally disengaged. That's somewhere along the line. Federal politics became such the central focus and As it turns out, you and I, other than casting a vote every two years, every four years, there's not much we can do about it. There's just not. We can watch these things happen. We can put them in the context of history. We can think about the past and we can think about, wow, this must have been very much what it was like as we were, as another group of people were marching toward You know, hesitate to already. Episode one Nazi. I'm just thrown. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. That that that carries weight. But we are at a point where we are disengaged from local and very much engaged in federal and our ability to touch and impact. manipulate the federal is limited. It always has been. That's not new. It's just now because there is this incredible void between the two. Everyone's thinking federally. Everyone's thinking nationally constantly. And it's impacting us locally. David (11:16) Yeah. So I guess that kind of leads us though to another point, is why us? Why does it matter what we think? And the truth is really doesn't. I mean, I guess we would say it doesn't really matter what you or I think. But as a psychiatrist, as somebody who kind of holds at a unique perspective, on the human psyche What what do we what do we offer? What what can we can we sort of offer here? I'll kind of let you start and then I'll I'll Rob (11:51) Okay. David (11:51) blather on an ad if I can Rob (11:54) Right well that that is the unique skill set you bring as the blathering on. David (12:01) I Let me get a few more of these in and I'll do it. I'll turn pink and I'll go for it. Rob (12:05) Yeah, own it, own it. So, you know, I've thought of this and we have had many, discussions and many different venues on these topics. And it made me wonder, is this unique? Is our perspective somehow unique? Is this the first time a psychiatrist has ever thought in these terms? As it turns out, no. Because one of the patterns that you'll probably detect very quickly and if you spend any time with me, you'll find there's a book. There's always a book if you just yeah, shocking. There's a book. here's David (12:40) Yeah, surprising. Rob's got a book. Rob (12:44) the yeah, here's the here's the here's the thing that that did surprise me. So in 1919, a gentleman named George Efford Everett Partridge wrote a book called The Psychology of Nations, and it was contributing to a philosophy of history series. And in that book, he identified the collective psychology of nations, and he said that there's four elements. There's a national identity. There's the collective behavior of a nation, the national narrative. and then the shared values in the nation. And I'll tell you, when I was looking at that, it really resonated with me, particularly at this moment in time, because we are faced culturally with some big questions, some issues. We are at a point in our history in which the information coming at us is probably bigger than what we can actually absorb as a human. we have access to the collective knowledge of history, it's too much. And because of that, and because we are sitting at a point in which there are significant socioeconomic issues, adjustments, many people who are working jobs right now are working jobs that either they are aware or they have an inkling that robots. will be doing these jobs within the next decade. And it creates a of scenario. Yeah, your job or robot, a robot could do your job, could sit in on your meetings. David (14:21) Well, tell me what you think about that, though. How does that make you feel? Rob (14:24) you know, I'm, I'm, I'm still, trying to assess it actually. I'm trying to make sense of it. I, I, I don't know what to feel about it. I really don't. David (14:32) That's interesting. Rob (14:32) you know, from my standpoint, I think about say, primary care and I think, you know what? An AI doc probably could do a primary care physician's job. but you know, to, protect my core, I, yeah. David (14:45) and there goes the rest of our listening. Rob (14:47) Yeah, exactly. Everyone's gone. David (14:47) There goes the rest of the audience. right. Bye. Rob (14:50) But no, I mean, you know, in order to do good primary care and this isn't the outliers, but to do good primary care, it's following the recommendations that this is what you need to do in order to screen for cancer. And this is what you need to do. This is the age and this is what they need. They need this vaccination. They need this screening tool. They need whatever. And where we fall short sometimes in medicine is that we're not AIs, and we miss these things, and we have all these tools that help us. I think, okay, maybe in that environment, maybe everyone should come through, see an AI doc, and be routed to the things that the recommendations say. Now, behind those recommendations is science, is the science that says this is what you should do. I don't think an AI is going to be able to do that. I really don't. But I might be surprised. And then I think, OK, my job, I'm a psychiatrist and it requires a higher level. And I'm not saying smarter by any means. yeah, I'm trying now desperately to pull back in my limited, our limited audience that we don't have. But I think. Okay, I have a job that requires a lot of thinking that is truly outside the box. can an argument be made that psychiatry would be better suited by AI? Because if you look at all the recommendations on this is how you treat depression, you give them this medicine, you wait X number of weeks, then you give them that medicine. You wait X number of weeks. and then you try this combination or however it is. They're there and the success rates are there. So if you're removed from the tension of sitting with another human who is desperate, maybe you would do a better job. I don't know. Now, then I think, okay, my job as an administrator, it's probably solid, I think. I think it's solid. But I don't understand how an AI could do that, but they may. mean, give it five years. I've been playing with... David (16:51) I mean, you would think the job as an administrator might be easier to replace than the job as a clinician, but to some extent, think the task of going through the algorithmic treatment is something that AI could do. It's sort of when you're derailed, when the algorithm's not working, which is sort of when you or I come in play anyway, as Rob (17:24) Mm-hmm. David (17:25) a psychiatrist, right? you were not to, mean, this kind of gets completely off topic of what we're talking, which is fine. I mean, that's a point, right? Like, Rob (17:30) Well, speaking of disrailed... David (17:33) but exactly. Yeah. But, but that's when you were, I get involved, right? Is when, when the right of prescription for acetalipram wait, wait four to six weeks, that didn't work. Raise the dose, wait four to six weeks that didn't work. Change it to sertraline. wait four to six weeks, okay, that didn't work, raise it, wait four to six weeks. Now what? Send it to a psychiatrist. That sort of the model that is already followed, that could be done probably by AI and often sort of, mean, but it's sort of, kind of, that's sort of what we do, right? Rob (18:10) Right. David (18:11) Is to kind of figure out, why didn't that work? Or at least that's how it should be. You know, I mean it would be lovely if all day every day I got the whiffle ball Depression anxieties that are really super easy that respond to the lowest possible dose of a simple ant antidepressant That Rob (18:29) and you don't. David (18:30) don't worry about yeah, no and yeah, we don't But that's that's a story for another day Rob (18:39) Well, but I think actually I'm going to tie this back into the overall picture actually. David (18:44) Please do, I will be impressed. Rob (18:46) I detect enough anxiety in you and I in the efforts to justify our existence that I can then extrapolate that out to a different population who may have a little harder time extrapolating that, making those connections. And I can say... All right, now I understand why their anxiety is what their anxiety is. And there's some great quotes on this, but fervor is the defense of uncertainty. I could not find who said that. I know I have it somewhere, because I have a great book of quotes. I think quotes are like the poetry of life. It's like life distilled. You take a quote and it encapsulates something really important in tiny tiny words. I did find something interesting though. Fervor is the weapon of choice for the impotent and that was a guy named Franz Fannin and Franz Fannin was This is how he's described which I loved. He's a Marxist humanist political radical and pan-africanist And this is is middle of 19th century actually and he he focused on the psychopathology of colonization. No, I'm sorry. Colonialization. The the Bourbons. David (20:05) doing its job. You'll soon you'll you'll you'll Rob (20:07) Yeah, and what we'll be curious David (20:09) wake up tomorrow morning behind a dumpster in an alley. So perfect. Doing its Rob (20:11) Right. Right. Exactly. But in an alley behind a dumpster with a bottle of old crow in my hand, questioning all my life decisions, at any rate, that uncertainty, which translates into fervor, I think we're seeing that. I think we're seeing a lot of fervor. this, this, I hesitate to say mindless, but sort of, aggressive belief in something that provides an alternative narrative. Even if that alternative narrative and I know we'll talk about this later, but rationalization that alternative narrative is, Maybe not tied to logic, maybe not tied to reason and it will probably not be how history unfolds. But for right now, gonna fight it, gonna fight it hard. And I'm gonna get behind anybody who I feel has that cause. David (21:03) Alright. So. I do believe that as psychiatrists, we have that ability to take a peek at the picture, whole, a third person perspective, I should say, the view of what's going on and hopefully a behavioral perspective on what's happening with somebody in relationships, in a culture, country, what have you, and try to. Rob (21:39) So you think insight? We're trying to provide the audience with insight. David (21:45) Yeah, I guess that's probably a better word than my random amalgamation of loosely conjoined phrases. Yeah, no, absolutely, insight. Trying to provide that perspective of why, what's happening. Hopefully, and to sort of normalize the feeling that we're all sort of experiencing as we're kind of going through this. And to say, yeah, if you're feeling anxious about what's happening, sure, yeah, we all are, right? Like we're all kind of feeling anxious. Yeah, that's a pretty legit response. And I do think that our ability to do that with some kind of calm. This is certainly helpful. But we can also do that without taking without necessarily taking a side or pointing, hopefully too much blame. think one of the things that came out of this that I, you know, wasn't surprised to see, but saw a lot of in this last in this last election cycle was a lot of finger. pointing right on a lot of blame on like who was who's at fault. One one I don't know that it matters right like so much but more of a you know let's let's understand where we're at let's sort of understand the moment and and where do we go from here I think that's sort of the bigger thing right like find a safe space to sort of unpack it and Rob (23:14) Gosh, Dave, that sounds way too woke. That's not popular right now. Safe space. David (23:17) I don't know that it's woke. Well, maybe it is a saint. Well, know, is that woke? Rob (23:24) safe space. It's pretty woke. David (23:26) Okay, well, woke. I mean, a place to say like, I don't know that I appreciate this, to beat down somebody who's saying like, yeah, didn't, I thought what I was voting for was something different than what I voted for. where you're kind of, you're like wanting to beat them to death for voting for something and then it not being what they wanted, right? I think that's sort of the point. Because Rob (23:52) Well, and. David (23:53) when you're saying like, you did this, well, maybe, but that doesn't really help. It doesn't help to, Rob (23:59) It does not. It does not. David (24:01) yeah, I think that's the point is you can't really change anything. You can't change the past, right? But what you can do is you can, understand this moment now, understand the plight, the things that were happening. They kind of led to that and, and say, well, let's, let's do better. Let's, let's understand it without picking, when again, without picking sides, I'm not here to tell you to tell anybody what to do. and nor should we be. I'm not, I, I've never once told a patient what to do with their life. not it's never, it's not been my job. It will never be my job. I couldn't possibly tell you or anybody else what to do. Nor would I want to. mean, it's what a I barely know what to do with my own life. You know, we're right. Rob (24:46) Amen. Yeah. David (24:47) Like we're all just sort of we're all just trying to make as many laps around the sun as possible and just trying to make it. I think we all wake up and are doing the best we can. And to understand that, to understand that. I think most of us are just thinking we're doing a good job. And we don't always, you know, we don't always do the best job. think under, but let's get that perspective. think hopefully you and I and whoever else we can get to help us, you know, come along with us here. We'll, we'll bring that perspective. Rob (25:18) Well, my leadership experience will say, command experience tells me that nobody gets up in the morning, looks at themselves in the mirror and says, I'm going to go be a bad person. Everybody wants to be a decent human. My speculation is serial killers and serial rapists probably look at themselves in the morning and think, I'm not a bad guy, even if they are. Nobody wants to be a bad guy. really my goal with this is not to be overly political. I I certainly have my own political perspectives, but this hopefully is not about politics as much as it about the psychopathology that drives some of the fervor related to those politics. I you can believe what you can and hopefully we can navigate in such a way that it does not feel, appear that we are conservative or we are liberal. That really what we're talking about is the dynamic that drives some of the extremes or drives illogical decision making, which I guess is inflammatory in and of itself. I got to watch myself. So that is really my goal for this. I would love it if someone walked away from this and said, I have no idea what those guys' politics are. I speculate just because of the nature of the moment, there may be some perception of one or the other, but that's certainly David (26:46) I don't know that Rob (26:47) not the goal. David (26:48) those tools on your behind you speak loud and loud and clear. Rob (26:51) Yeah. Right. I'll pan over to my gun safe. How about that? David (26:57) Yeah, I don't know. mean, my 20 plus years in two branches of service mean whatever, right? But no, I agree. Yeah, I agree. mean, it's these things aren't it isn't really about it's not it isn't about politics. We're not politicians. I'm not I'm not a politician yet. Rob (27:17) yet. David (27:19) No, I don't know that I want to be. don't know. Rob (27:21) I think this ruins any chances, by the way. David (27:25) I mean, I don't want to be, but because I don't know that I could win, or at least I don't think I believe I could win. I think in order to be a politician, you really have to believe you can't lose. I do believe that's probably a strong trait. You have to kind of go out and believe that you can't possibly lose. Certainly, that's not really the goal at all. think again, the point is to help people kind of navigate this world in this moment. And hopefully make it fun. I mean, make it funny. mean, I enjoy the conversations with you. I enjoy the conversations with our colleagues and hopefully people will learn from that. Maybe they'll feel more engaged. Maybe they'll, you know, want to ask questions or or some people might want to participate. That's kind of, that's kind of the point. I'll ask you, how do you think social media, different incentives, there are media incentives, political systems reward those extremes though. Like, what do you think? Rob (28:20) Well, you're jumping into a pet project of mine, and I'm sure it'll get rolled out over the coming weeks, It would be way too narcissistic to say years that this will last. However, I think social media actually, and I don't know if it caused the change, Or it just marked the change. But I can go backwards. I mean, I'm old enough. I remember a time before the internet. And I remember that we were able to get, we had a shared source in which we got our information. there were three, well, David (29:01) Encyclopedia Britannica. Rob (29:04) that was part of it. That was part of it. But no, we had three channels. We had three channels and you could select one of three and they presented pretty much the same information regardless of which channel you're on and everyone had their preference or whatever, whoever the anchor was that drove it. And then along came, and this is as the internet ramped up, along came the specialty news outlets. And to me, the specialty news outlets started this trend toward compartmentalization, that people could avoid the things they didn't want to hear, and they could zone in on the things that just supported their belief structure, and got them farther and farther away from facts. It got them toward their belief structure and where they can sit without anxiety. And then social media was the nail in that coffin, the internet. really was the nail in the coffin. not only, and I've already said this, but not only did the advent of the internet allow us, force us actually to have way more information than humans have ever been. I mean, if we go back to our formative environment, we were never designed to be able to know the things we know, or at least have access to. We don't know them, we can just Google them. that there's a difference between Googling something and having factual knowledge of it with all of the background that's required to put context and probability in. I mean, it's very similar to like, I've got a stomach pain, Google stomach pain, cancer, it's gonna pop up. You know, all the things are gonna pop up. They will not tell you the probabilities, they will tell you the possibilities. And that's what's happened to us. So I do think, and whether we were moving this way or whether it just played into some this human desire to be back into a small tribe with limited information, that's what's happened. I mean, if you are, I don't know, help me, insert some atypical interests here. You know, you are a furry who loves AR-15s and tequila. Well, you could... Yeah, you can, you can... the insert part, insert... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. David (31:12) What do you think Freud would say right now about that insert? Wow. Do you want me to do like a voiceover of something different later? Okay. Yeah, I'll make it Rob (31:26) Probably, probably. Take that out. David (31:29) worse. Rob (31:29) no matter what interests you have, you can find a group and you can become part of a tribe on the internet that supports that. Whereas before there was some mitigation that you kept your weirdness to yourself because the community limited you. No doubt they're gone too. Who all will be lost? We've lost primary care docs. David (31:46) And there goes our furry population. Their audience is gone now. We got nobody left. We've lost bourbon drinkers, which I feel like was our primary. Rob (31:55) We've lost bourbon drinkers and furries. God damn. We're down to, I don't know who we're down to. Yeah. David (32:03) I even know, we're basically us. We're gonna be watching this later. well, there's probably a good Rob (32:07) Pretty much, pretty much, we'll laugh about it David (32:10) chance it was always gonna happen anyway, but whatever. I'll enjoy it. Rob (32:12) Yeah, yeah, yeah. So at any rate, I do think the internet for all its promise, for the fact that social media was, you know, I remember when the internet became a thing and the promise was we are going to unite people. It did not. There has been no uniting that occurred. It actually has split us further and further and further. And honestly, you know, right now we're focused on say, in the present politics, I think 50 years from now they're going to look back and they're going to say, that was the moment that humans had to deal with technology overload. That's when we had to deal with, we have too much information at our fingertips at once that it does not suit our brains well. David (32:58) I'm not sure I fully agree, but I get your point. I think it doesn't suit some of our brains well. I think it definitely doesn't suit those of us who weren't born or who were born before it happened. Rob (33:16) the 70s. David (33:17) Yeah, those of us who were born before this happened. I think I agree. Those of us who were who are not exposed to it at an early age, definitely. I think this is the amount of information, the way that the internet works when your brain is cooking as it's developing at a young age. We have billions upon billions of neurons and our brain is prioritizing what to prune. We are products of our environment. And as we're going through our developmental years, when we don't have access to this, we are prioritizing the informational sources that you're talking about. And so not having exposure to it, it's definitely makes it difficult to really know what to do with it. And I think that is a huge challenge. to people who were not adept to. deal with it. For those who are born into the environment and have that kind of earlier exposure and are getting that really early exposure, I would imagine, don't, I mean, nothing, there's, you know, I don't think there's gonna be a whole lot of data to support this for a very long time. But David Eaglin would read some of his writing, some of his research if you want to get a sense of what I'm getting at here. For the children who are exposed to this really early on, as the brain is getting this data input really, really early, Their their ability to interact with it. Their brains are really adapting Well, I mean the brain can adapt to Anything it really can and so as the technology becomes You know more more Interfaceable especially to a younger person younger and younger like you'll see They can take a child who is effectively blind and you can hook up a camera to them and you can actually teach them to see. Which is wild. you can actually do... this is why I'm not so convinced that it's the end all. I think it's just we can't really comprehend what how the how the internet and everything is going to impact. think it's obviously it's going to be very different. Like we just you and I, you and I grew up in very in in in different eras, not not so much so different, but different enough to where my exposure to it was right on the cusp where I was still in a developmental phase, more than you were. And so my, you know, I've got seven screens behind me you've got, you know, Rob (36:23) tools. David (36:23) power tools. I got power tools. If I turn my camera on, I do, but I do. I'll pull, pull. But, but, Rob (36:25) Yeah, sure you do. Sure you do. Go ahead and pretend. It's fine. No, no, no, no, you don't. No. David (36:34) no, but, I, but I just think I, I, I would say humanity, mean, humans adapt. they adapt really well. think the issue right now is really that the technology isn't, hasn't fully adapted yet. It will. I think it will. I mean, I don't know what it will look like, but I think the wearables. Rob (36:51) That makes me feel better. David (36:53) Yeah, no, think I mean, have you even have you played with like the Apple vision pro or something like that? They're, they're a mate. mean, they're, Rob (37:01) Do I look like a guy that's played with Applevision Pro? David (37:03) I mean, yeah, they're pretty cool. mean, you look, of course you do. get no, no, you don't. But there's all these, all these technologies are, I think they're very usable. They're user friendly. I you know, you, they're, they're, they're getting to the point where I think it's, it's pretty, it's pretty impressive. And the younger that somebody can interface. Yeah. Rob (37:25) So you think the interface is going to change the fundamental fact that so much information and disinformation David (37:37) Yes. Yes. Rob (37:38) gets funneled in? Because what we found David (37:40) I mean, I think you're... Rob (37:42) is these companies are not willing to filter disinformation. And I actually, there's part of me that says I get that. because then they have to be the arbiter of what's real and they don't want to be that. David (37:56) Well, no, think it means that they're not going to get the money, right? think it's money. Unfortunately, I think there's a monetary reward to it. mean, the more negative something is, the more dopamine hit that you get from it, you're like six times more likely to click on it if it's upsetting and anger-provoking, right? So you're more likely to... Click through it. For those of us who are older, I won't name names here, but some of us on this are a little bit older than others. You're more likely to click that link if it's, yeah, so one of us is older. Glad it took you all to pick up on that. no, Rob (38:39) two of us, jackass. There's two of us. It's me. Yeah, yeah, I'm slow. David (38:48) you're more likely to, click on it, and that's, you know, clicks are money and that's, you know, so there's, there's a reason, but yeah. So, so yeah, they don't, they don't, I'm sure they don't want to police it, but also I'm sure they don't want to lose. They don't want to lose. money. They don't want to lose that revenue share. it kind of comes down to at what point does something become real? Does disinformation become fact? mean, objectively never. But how many times does somebody have to hear something before they believe it to be true? And apparently, not that many times, know, eventually you'll people will believe things to be true as long as you keep saying it and That's if it's something that you'll never see anyway Well, Rob (39:34) even when there's video evidence to refute it. David (39:37) but but even but that's but that's been kind of the case for anything right? mean that's If you just want to believe something is true, you can believe it's true. So I don't, as far as how kids, as far as the future generations, I'm less worried about technology being this downfall of humanity. I think it's gonna change humanity for sure, definitely. In ways I don't know, ways I'm not really sure how that's gonna look, possibly, hopefully for the better, but time will tell, right? You and I may not be around to really experience that We'll we will see but We will we'll find out Rob (40:13) You've given me like an inkling of hope, an inkling. I'm going off my kids and watching my kids. I don't think they're any better managing this. I am amazed by the disinformation and belief structure that they develop based on TikTok, which is their thing. tick tock in reels between those two that's where all their information comes from and when they filter it out income to me like in certain it is it is a shadow of a shadow of the reality of it and then also something i'm stunned with by them and i can't put myself back at the age of of 15, 16, 17, 18 to remember how I was. But I am stunned by how also they don't care. Yeah, I don't care. David (41:04) That it's not real? Rob (41:06) They just don't care. They just like, they'll say, I'm not very political. Like, okay. David (41:11) Just make sure you jam that subscribe button and Rob (41:15) Yeah. David (41:16) likes. That's all I can say. yeah, make sure Rob (41:20) Exactly, Whatever disinformation that really caught your eye, click that button. David (41:27) you click your likes and subscribes. Rob (41:28) Yeah. David (41:29) That's all I can say with this. No, but hopefully we'll provide some kind of nuance humor. Any clarity that we can. That's the goal with this, right? Now, why bourbon? Why are we doing bourbon? Especially since you hate it so much the bourbon hater that you are waking up Rob (41:49) no, no, I love bourbon. Let me be utterly clear. I love bourbon. David (41:55) okay. Rob (41:56) If you lay out every alcohol available to mankind, bourbon is going to be what I grab every time. is the quintessential American whiskey. It is it is it has every flavor profile that I like in an alcohol All I can say and I you know going backwards apparently bourbon went through a period where it was considered the poor man's whiskey and And it's had a Renaissance in the last say 20 years And now you know, there's a lot of hipsters who who want to talk bourbon But no, I adore bourbon. David (42:41) Did we just lose the hipsters? We just lost the hipsters. All right. Rob (42:45) I'm going to have to excuse myself from this show because ultimately I keep, yeah, but alienating people left and right. David (42:47) Yeah, we just lost. We're gonna use this alienating, alienating on it. That's all right, whatever. Rob (42:58) I adore bourbon and I love its simplicity. It is 51 % corn alcohol and then whatever else magic they wanna add to it. And then it comes down to aging and the like. My complaint with it has been that as it becomes more popular and more hip, the prices start to march up. And man, I've tried them all. And in particular, when I first started drinking bourbon, I had the massive collection. was buying all these bottles of bourbon. different price points. Pour those babies out. Yeah, there's a different flavor profile. It's just not that significant in my mind. I do like, I prefer a rye bourbon over a weeded bourbon. I like the burn. There's a spiciness to it that I enjoy. Quick story. David (43:56) That's we got time. Rob (43:58) Actually, we're blowing through time, my friend, but that's true. That's true. That's true. Nobody will David (44:00) We got all the time in the world. We could do this for 24 more hours. I need to make sure I set a, I don't have a screen saver. Rob (44:08) listen this long. I was in a formal military environment, not in uniform, it was after hours. I was welcoming some distinguished visitors from higher, from division. And we were at a restaurant that was, at least in my mind, my hillbilly back hills mind, it was a higher end restaurant, steakhouse kind of thing. And they came out and it, David (44:28) You can say outback if you want. Rob (44:30) no, specialty, specialty steakhouse. David (44:34) Well, Logan's Roadhouse, okay. Rob (44:37) Very very unique to the environment when I was where I was at but They came out and was one of those waiters that is both a historian and a waiter, right? So he was telling us about how this restaurant has a special relationship with Woodward Woodford Reserve and they have a special cask and anyway, he's going through it and and me and my exo both like, yes, we'd like, you know, and it was like, I mean, it was a shot, mean, or well, it was a proper cube, just the perfect cube in the middle of the glass. anyway, later he revealed that it was $300 a shot. David (45:20) That was nice of him. Rob (45:21) Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was later. At David (45:24) Yeah. Rob (45:24) which point my exo, hits me in the side and he's like, did we just get a $300 shot? And I'm like, I don't know, we'll see. Whatever you want, I would now just buy it because you're already blown the bank. As it turned out, we bought a $40 shot, not a $300 shot, but there is zero, zero reason for $300 for a shot of bourbon. I do not care how David (45:53) Yeah. Rob (45:53) rare, unique, whatever. I drank the bourbon I drank and I promise you if the $300 bourbon had been there, it would have been no more magical on my tongue. David (46:03) I agree. Well, I don't agree. mean, maybe it was maybe a $300. I get to tell you, I probably would not want to pay that, but $300 for a shot myself. But who knows, maybe it's the best damn shot. Rob (46:29) You ever had a papi? you David (46:30) I'm not, no, Rob (46:30) ever? David (46:31) I've never had Pappy Van Winkle. Rob (46:34) It did not. I didn't. I didn't dance. I it wasn't rainbows and unicorns. David (46:35) It wasn't that. I've watched a lot of BoJack Horsemen and perhaps we'll talk about that at some point. So I do think why Bourbon More than because it is a lovely beverage. It's just to keep this what this is, right? It is not a stiff conversation. We don't, we're not, this isn't clinical. I don't want to get, this doesn't need to be formal. This isn't doctor, whoever the hell. This is us trying to be us. That's why we're We're really don't, we're a couple of guys who are really just trying to take the years of life experience that we have, that I have, that you have, and share. And hopefully, again, try to just help anybody else. That's what we're here for. If you are interested in you know, shelling out the whatever copays or hundreds of dollars that it would cost to sit down and have me do that for, you know, and let me opine, you know, fine. But I promise you, I promise you, yeah, I promise you this Rob (47:51) I think you're blowing those opportunities right now. David (47:55) is a lot cheaper and you'll probably get the same. You'll get the same cogitations, right? Just I'm doing it with a. with a glass of bourbon with people that I enjoy. and hopefully with some fun, we'll have some fun with this. That's the goal, have some fun, learn some Rob (48:11) Nicely stated. David (48:12) stuff. And, you know. Rob (48:15) Amazingly, nothing to add. David (48:17) Yeah, so I will say I do want to try to give a maybe a an absurd prescription, you Rob (48:30) Okay. David (48:31) know, shrink prescription. Rob (48:33) Well, I've got a serious one, so you do the absurd, I'll do serious. David (48:36) No, no, no, you can do the deep. Well, okay, I'll do. Here's my absurd one and. It's. It's a I don't know. I don't know how absurd this is. And it will probably sound absurd, but I really do think every member of Congress. Needs to pair up with another member of Congress on the opposite side of the aisle. and do mandatory couples therapy. Rob (49:03) Ha David (49:05) That is my prescription. Just mandatory couples therapy, coupled up. Rob (49:11) I don't know, maybe they should just get together and do shots of old Crow in an alley behind a dumpster. I mean... David (49:17) whilst doing shots of old crow behind an alley or in an alley behind a dumpster. Couples Rob (49:23) behind a dumpster. David (49:24) therapy. Okay, so that's my, that is my absurd, but I don't know Rob (49:27) Yeah. David (49:28) how absurd that sounds pretty, that could work though. You know it could. Rob (49:31) Well, Old Crow is best enjoyed when there is the aroma of spoiled milk and rotten meat in the milieu. David (49:41) Yeah, I always felt like it was like the smell of, because it's like the Sunday morning behind a bar smell, you know? That's the smell. You know the smell. Rob (49:51) Yeah, that's the smell Yeah, know the smell yeah, and David (49:57) Yeah. Rob (49:58) and I also can recall the taste of my mouth You know not good not good I actually have a serious one though David (50:04) Okay. Rob (50:05) and and I was trying to do I was trying to come up with something absurd And I kind of leaned in on you for that one Yeah David (50:12) I thought that was pretty serious, but... Rob (50:16) I know I think it might be valuable. I just it's not gonna happen No, no, I I actually think it would work if they were put But probably although David (50:18) Okay, you don't think it'll work? Okay. I, come on. Yeah, maybe without the old crow. Who is the old crow we're talking about though? Rob (50:31) okuruburban. David (50:32) I'm just, that one went right over your head. Rob (50:37) yeah, it did. Yes. So I actually do have what I think is a serious recommendation that that would be beneficial. And that is so, you know, I live in an area that is rural country. I am frequently struck by how good the relationships are between people. right up until the time they get on Facebook and start spouting their political beliefs. And then the animosity comes. In person, together, get along beautifully, that help each other, they're there, they're present. And then they get on Facebook and something weird happens in which the political belief structure starts to divide and become much more intense. So what I think, from a very serious standpoint, think getting folks involved locally would make a difference. And whether, I'm not saying you have to run for political office, I'm not saying, you know, don't join the school or run for the school board or whatever offices are locally. Because actually, as soon as start running, then all of sudden they start asking you questions about what's your stance on abortion? I'm like, well, it's for county clerk. I don't know, I don't have any. David (51:47) Yeah. Rob (51:49) Doesn't matter, does it? But it does. Is getting involved locally and that could be at a homeless shelter or a food bank or at the local school, volunteering your time to engage, be around people that the more we're actually not on Facebook or insert whatever the cool social media is at this moment. The David (52:13) MySpace. MySpace. I'm friends with Tom. Rob (52:41) it makes a difference nationally. So, you know, was it think national act locally or whatever the old thing was. But, you know, ultimately, I think people just need to think locally, much more. David (52:55) of it. So we had one serious recommendation, mine, and then the absurd one that people clearly won't do, yeah, no, nah, Rob (53:01) They have served like yeah, people aren't gonna get involved what? David (53:06) people won't give up. No, no, that's lovely. And no, you're absolutely right. People getting out and spending time together, getting off of social media, the ability to But as you were, yeah, we'll talk more about that on future episodes, but Rob (53:22) I'm sure we will. David (53:23) we'll want to take this moment to say thank you to anybody who stuck with us this thus far. We promise it'll get better. This was our this is the inaugural pilot run. And it was fun. I had fun. Hopefully we'll. Rob (53:38) good time. David (53:39) Yeah, well, we're going to add we have actually a lot a lot of I think really interesting. stuff lined up. We've got a lot of good topics. We got some interesting, you know, format that we're really looking at. This was just a way to kind of test our mics, make sure that, you know, stuff like the backdrops working. Rob is still in the middle of building his house or whatever the hell he's doing. No. Rob (54:02) Whatever. Yep. David (54:05) And Just making sure everything works and it looks like it works. We'll actually see if we recorded any of this. I'm not sure we did. We'll test the Rob (54:12) Well, we we know David (54:14) music and make sure everything works. We're gonna hopefully pull some sound bites out of this, maybe get some socials going. I think that actually is the plan. As much as we're bashing on social media, I'm sure we'll have them. So follow us, subscribe, share. Put some reviews in that are positive. You know, one star is like, what the hell is wrong with these people? Who cares? Narcissistic as they are. And then next, the next episode, episode one, we're going to talk about maybe some, I think grandiosity is the, is the big topic. So thanks for hanging in there. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the pod. I'm looking forward to it until next time. That was it. Thanks, Rob. Rob (54:58) Hey, it was great. David (55:00) It was fun. Alright, see ya. Out.